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Are the days of Local really numbered?

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#361 - 2013-12-09 22:24:37 UTC
Clearly ships don't cost anything and I just have a pathological fear of seeing them explode.
No, it has nothing to do with isk at all.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#362 - 2013-12-09 22:24:50 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Hey according to James all you need to do to fend off attackers is to have an omnitank... so why not just omnitank your ship in the first place and not risk losing it?

Also if you have to put in so much work to make ratting in nullsec "meaningful" - why do it?
You'd lose an omnitank to the rats if you took on the ones you need to make reasonable income.

And we do it because we like it. You like flying your little drake and pretending you're uber. We all like different things. Get over it.

And like we've pointed out several times onmitank is ONE of the MANY things that make WH space different. So no, it's not "all you need", but it bloody well helps.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#363 - 2013-12-09 22:25:02 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"It'll be possible to rat safely in nullsec if you fit an omni tank, rat aligned, constantly watch overview without blinking ever and also reselecting your warpout point every time you target more rats, bring friends to rat with you, pray the pirates hunting you won't just decloak and point as soon as a rat points you, and pray they won't just bump you off alignment."

Yeah, sure. That's an awful lot of hoops to jump through. You do realize the entire point was that at this point I could make more ISK in highsec, much more safely, with considerably less effort. So you've driven everybody with an ounce of sense out of ratting in nullsec.


If you're going to stick to HiSec because you're so very afraid of losing a ship... then you deserve the boredom and isolation that HiSec brings, and when it drives you to quitting EVE, good riddance, the community has enough whiny and entitled carebears - we won't miss one more.

I'd love for you to explain to me why less isk for more effort is better than more isk for less effort.
I eagerly await your reply.


I eagerly await you displaying the ability to not lie and misconstrue my points.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#364 - 2013-12-09 22:25:42 UTC
Because staring at a single box for hours on end just so I can make money is good gameplay.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#365 - 2013-12-09 22:25:44 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"It'll be possible to rat safely in nullsec if you fit an omni tank, rat aligned, constantly watch overview without blinking ever and also reselecting your warpout point every time you target more rats, bring friends to rat with you, pray the pirates hunting you won't just decloak and point as soon as a rat points you, and pray they won't just bump you off alignment."

Yeah, sure. That's an awful lot of hoops to jump through. You do realize the entire point was that at this point I could make more ISK in highsec, much more safely, with considerably less effort. So you've driven everybody with an ounce of sense out of ratting in nullsec.


If you're going to stick to HiSec because you're so very afraid of losing a ship... then you deserve the boredom and isolation that HiSec brings, and when it drives you to quitting EVE, good riddance, the community has enough whiny and entitled carebears - we won't miss one more.

I'd love for you to explain to me why less isk for more effort is better than more isk for less effort.
I eagerly await your reply.


I eagerly await you displaying the ability to not lie and misconstrue my points.
Pot, meet kettle.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#366 - 2013-12-09 22:26:32 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"It'll be possible to rat safely in nullsec if you fit an omni tank, rat aligned, constantly watch overview without blinking ever and also reselecting your warpout point every time you target more rats, bring friends to rat with you, pray the pirates hunting you won't just decloak and point as soon as a rat points you, and pray they won't just bump you off alignment."

Yeah, sure. That's an awful lot of hoops to jump through. You do realize the entire point was that at this point I could make more ISK in highsec, much more safely, with considerably less effort. So you've driven everybody with an ounce of sense out of ratting in nullsec.


If you're going to stick to HiSec because you're so very afraid of losing a ship... then you deserve the boredom and isolation that HiSec brings, and when it drives you to quitting EVE, good riddance, the community has enough whiny and entitled carebears - we won't miss one more.

I'd love for you to explain to me why less isk for more effort is better than more isk for less effort.
I eagerly await your reply.


I eagerly await you displaying the ability to not lie and misconstrue my points.

Here's the thing: I haven't.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#367 - 2013-12-09 22:27:37 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
You'd lose an omnitank to the rats if you took on the ones you need to make reasonable income.


So what you're saying is, if I had 0/90/90/0 tank, cool, but if I had like 85/85/85/85, I'd die?

Uh.

Lucas Kell wrote:
You like flying your little drake and pretending you're uber.


I'm not the best, dude. I'm just better than you. Get over it. Bear

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#368 - 2013-12-09 22:28:07 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"It'll be possible to rat safely in nullsec if you fit an omni tank, rat aligned, constantly watch overview without blinking ever and also reselecting your warpout point every time you target more rats, bring friends to rat with you, pray the pirates hunting you won't just decloak and point as soon as a rat points you, and pray they won't just bump you off alignment."

Yeah, sure. That's an awful lot of hoops to jump through. You do realize the entire point was that at this point I could make more ISK in highsec, much more safely, with considerably less effort. So you've driven everybody with an ounce of sense out of ratting in nullsec.


If you're going to stick to HiSec because you're so very afraid of losing a ship... then you deserve the boredom and isolation that HiSec brings, and when it drives you to quitting EVE, good riddance, the community has enough whiny and entitled carebears - we won't miss one more.


Nobody is afraid of losing a ship. PVE is overhead, and lots of people want to minimise the time spent on it.

I understand that living in a WH where PVP is sporadic and PVE plentiful may make that difficult to understand.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#369 - 2013-12-09 22:28:07 UTC
"Guys I'm going to stare at a box for hours on end so I can maybe shoot some red crosses and make some paltry sum of isk."
"Why not just do it in highsec so you don't have to stare at the box"
"What are you risk averse? Get the **** out of my game"

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#370 - 2013-12-09 22:28:45 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

I'm sorry, but until kill mails start reporting the tactics and circumstances of kills, beyond who was simply involved on a basic level applying DPS...
then pointing out how kills still happen is meaningless.


You don't need to look at kill mails. You also live it through alliance/corp channels. You hear and read about who got blopped and why. If you don't live it, you can see it on KB. You can see who was dropped whilst ratting, mining, etc. It's not hard.

Nikk Narrel wrote:

And suggesting that local is only useful if a group of players puts in an effort? No.


Yes. You see if the first time you see a red is when it's in local, you've already ****** up. Local is useful insofar as its state is communicated to you or by you, through intel channels. If you don't put the effort in to make those channels effective, it's useless. Having to warp out is absolutely the last thing you should be doing. With good comms, you should be safe long before the red enters your system.

I'm starting to think you've not really lived in null.

Try not to make assumptions regarding my experience. I am not very forthcoming about all the details, nor do I intend to be.

It is enough to say I have done enough mining in null, to understand the how and why.

My point, is that kill mails existing, even in large numbers, do not speak for or against the effectiveness of any set of tactics. They simply point out ships exploded, and if we assume it is for the wrong reasons, then we would appear as fools.

Specifying that all aspects are balanced simply because kill mails exist for a region, would require such assumptions.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#371 - 2013-12-09 22:30:12 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"Guys I'm going to stare at a box for hours on end so I can maybe shoot some red crosses and make some paltry sum of isk."


I agree, staring at Local is boring, and grinding rats for ISK is stupid.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#372 - 2013-12-09 22:30:57 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
You'd lose an omnitank to the rats if you took on the ones you need to make reasonable income.


So what you're saying is, if I had 0/90/90/0 tank, cool, but if I had like 85/85/85/85, I'd die?

Uh.

Lucas Kell wrote:
You like flying your little drake and pretending you're uber.


I'm not the best, dude. I'm just better than you. Get over it. Bear
LOL
You clearly know **** all about EVE bro. You are basically turning around and stating that well known facts that have been facts since before you even started playing are in fact not true. Seriously, L2P.

I'll give you one thing, you keep me steadily laughing, though it's now starting to feel like I'm laughing at a disabled kid.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#373 - 2013-12-09 22:33:39 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
You'd lose an omnitank to the rats if you took on the ones you need to make reasonable income.


So what you're saying is, if I had 0/90/90/0 tank, cool, but if I had like 85/85/85/85, I'd die?

Uh.

Lucas Kell wrote:
You like flying your little drake and pretending you're uber.


I'm not the best, dude. I'm just better than you. Get over it. Bear
LOL
You clearly know **** all about EVE bro. You are basically turning around and stating that well known facts that have been facts since before you even started playing are in fact not true. Seriously, L2P.

I'll give you one thing, you keep me steadily laughing, though it's now starting to feel like I'm laughing at a disabled kid.


Yeah bro! You're dumb, bro. I'm just laughing at you, bro!

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#374 - 2013-12-09 22:34:08 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Right. Which is why you want us to stare at the overview instead. It's the exact same, except you give the ratter almost no time to react. At all.
I recently got tackled in nullsec by stealth bombers while I was in an interceptor, salvaging some T2 wrecks 80 km or so off of a gate. I had a warpout selected already but before I could even hit warp I was already scrammed and there was nothing I could do to get away. (An AB might have helped me but I didn't have one fit - regardless that's irrelevant to this thread).

This was at my peak alertness, mind you. Someone grinding for even half an hour won't be as alert, much less several hours. But that's what you're asking for.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#375 - 2013-12-09 22:35:52 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
You'd lose an omnitank to the rats if you took on the ones you need to make reasonable income.


So what you're saying is, if I had 0/90/90/0 tank, cool, but if I had like 85/85/85/85, I'd die?

Uh.

Lucas Kell wrote:
You like flying your little drake and pretending you're uber.


I'm not the best, dude. I'm just better than you. Get over it. Bear
LOL
You clearly know **** all about EVE bro. You are basically turning around and stating that well known facts that have been facts since before you even started playing are in fact not true. Seriously, L2P.

I'll give you one thing, you keep me steadily laughing, though it's now starting to feel like I'm laughing at a disabled kid.


Yeah bro! You're dumb, bro. I'm just laughing at you, bro!

Awww how sweet. The "I know you are so what am I" defense. Haven't seen that for a long time.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#376 - 2013-12-09 22:36:51 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Anoms should require at minimum the attention span of a grandmaster chess player on adderall and the reflexes of a cat in order to do them profitably. And if you can't you're a risk averse carebear who should just biomass and GTFO.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#377 - 2013-12-09 22:38:32 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Right. Which is why you want us to stare at the overview instead. It's the exact same, except you give the ratter almost no time to react. At all.
I recently got tackled in nullsec by stealth bombers while I was in an interceptor, salvaging some T2 wrecks 80 km or so off of a gate. I had a warpout selected already but before I could even hit warp I was already scrammed and there was nothing I could do to get away. (An AB might have helped me but I didn't have one fit - regardless that's irrelevant to this thread).

This was at my peak alertness, mind you. Someone grinding for even half an hour won't be as alert, much less several hours. But that's what you're asking for.


Sorry you're bad?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#378 - 2013-12-09 22:39:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Anoms should require at minimum the attention span of a grandmaster chess player on adderall and the reflexes of a cat in order to do them profitably. And if you can't you're a risk averse carebear who should just biomass and GTFO.


Wow. You must find EVE to be a very difficult game to play.

Seriously though. Just omnitank your boat and you'll be able to kill those pesky cloak-tacklers just fine.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#379 - 2013-12-09 22:40:34 UTC
Sorry I'm not tweaking?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#380 - 2013-12-09 22:40:42 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

My point, is that kill mails existing, even in large numbers, do not speak for or against the effectiveness of any set of tactics. They simply point out ships exploded, and if we assume it is for the wrong reasons, then we would appear as fools.


They do really. You can see who wasn't paying attention to intel channels. A faction fit Golem killed by blops, for example, probably wasn't camping a gate or mining.

Nikk Narrel wrote:

Specifying that all aspects are balanced simply because kill mails exist for a region, would require such assumptions.


The fact that kills happen regularly tells me it's working as intended. The fact that people can function in null, mining and so on, tells me it's working as intended. If anything's unbalanced, it's AFK cloaking but that's a different threadnaught. Without local, nobody would be able to earn enough in null to make being there worthwhile and in case you've forgotten, null is where the base of the T2 production pyramid is.