EVE General Discussion

I'm sorry, but until kill mails start reporting the tactics and circumstances of kills, beyond who was simply involved on a basic level applying DPS...
then pointing out how kills still happen is meaningless.

And suggesting that local is only useful if a group of players puts in an effort?
No.

Intel channels require players to populate the intel, local requires no such group effort.
If you have a POS in system, and see a non-blue name, you can get safe if you prepared correctly.

As noone but yourself needs to be involved in that process of evading PvP, it can hardly be called group effort.

If you are suggesting the POS being anchored took group effort, then yes, and that was rewarded by moon goo or whatever that moon yielded to the alliance involved. The POS did not create local.
Having the POS as a shelter to use for friendly players is already a significant advantage.

Being warned by local, that's a freebie in this context, objectively.

No, you clearly deserve every kill in every circumstance. Why not just immobilize ratters entirely while you're at it.

So now you're flat out lying. Nice.
There's no point in trying to argue with you. You want your free and effortless kills and you'll cry to CCP until you get them.

Your claim about players ratting under the same conditions. Given that you're a wormhole player you're either completely confused about how PVE is actually done in nullsec and how conditions there are very different, or (more likely) you're just being completely disingenuous. Either way, you need your head checked.

Oh okay so basically you just misunderstood what I wrote. Okay then that can be fixed -

You wrote this:

how long do you think it takes someone who's ratting to identify that there's a hostile player on grid with him, reselect the warpout point (they're going to be targeting rats and selecting which ones to attack), and hit warp? Probably longer than it takes for you to lock and point them.

And I pointed out that there's already a group of players who rat under those conditions ("those conditions" being no Local and the possibility that there's a cloaky right next to you) - and they do just fine. You see in NullSec people whine about AFK cloakers and various "risks". In WH's you just assume there's already someone watching you. When you rat... you rat aligned to a safe. Or rather, at least I do. I've had Stealth Bombers and Proteui decloak next to me, but because I'm paying attention, I just click "warp" and off I go. My cursor is always on that warp button - or the DScan button.

When I shoot Sleepers, I have a very minimal need to take my cursor off the warp button - the only time I do is when I target a queue of like 8 Sleepers. But then I select my warp out point and the cursor goes back over the warp button. To shoot the next sleeper after the previous one has died.... wait for it... just hit the hotkey your weapons are set to. They will automatically activate on the next target you have in your queue... no need to click it if it's already targeted.

I'm sorry for your confusion. It's my fault for not elaborating more.

Yes, and you farm sleepers in omnitanked PVP fit ships, since they are designed for that. You omni tank null rats and you're going to find yourself on fire pretty quick. Which means people know exactly what PVE players will be tanked for.
Not to mention mining being something that some people tend to do as well, making it pretty hard to stay aligned and avoid a cloaky bump followed by a swift death.

Let's also mention that WH's see next to zero traffic, especially when you seal them off, which a lot of people do.

TL;DR
WH space != null sec. Stop comparing.

Nope, but generally if you are going to keep the rats in range then you are going to be keeping the entry point in range too. In order for a cloaker to not be able to catch you and bump you, you must be travelling away from the entry point faster than their cloaked ship can travel, which is pretty damn quick if they are designed for it.

Oh yeah, because it's so hard to get around that by generating your own safe, or using a initial bounce to give yourself a clean trajectory through your targets path to a celestial. I can dig out paint and spend 60 seconds drawing you a diagram if you can't figure it out.
Plus, a POS is at a moon... Which is a celesital. Just wow at the genius level stuff coming out here.

See the first bit. No matter wherre you end up, you can easily generate bookmarks to get around your target. Were you around in the old days of probing?

So either this is an admission that miners are dead or you are saying that exhumers should simply not be used and we should just treat retrievers as expendable. Yeah, because what we want is mine with a ****** yield and fill killboards with miner kills so people know exactly where to go.

This explains a LOT.

Don't omnitank? We don't, which is exactly the problem i was pointing out.

There are a variety of ways to fit ships to change out resists, and only a finite combination of ammo types with varying DPS. An oimnitanked ship is going to be fairly balanced across the board, so yes, it doesn't matter what you shoot at them. Which is why you being in WH space get an advantage. In null you will have larger resist gaps, meaning a quick look up on dotlan and you can swap out your ship for whatever you need to be strong against PVE players in that area.

Erm... no. Just no.

Look at dotlan statistics, you'll see that WH space is literally dead compared to all other types of space.
And you can shut down stargates in null? How exactly do you manage that oh mighty master of EVE mechanics.

You're ignoring that most of that is irrelevant to the actual mechanics we're talking about.

You do realize that with the exception of Minmatar and a very small number of Caldari ships, most ships have fixed damage type, right? Like if I'm in an Enyo there's really no way I'm going to "swap my loadout" to hit that Raven's EM hole... lol come on dude, you're embarrassing yourself.



I believe you originally said "seal off", not "shut down" - don't try to change your words around on me, boy. :) And you can indeed "seal off" areas in NullSec, it's called a gatecamp with bubbles.

It sounds to me like the base of all your responses are:

"Waaaah, don't make EVE harder, I don't want to spend too much effort also I don't want to lose ships."