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Anti-slavery Amnesty Initiative
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Erik Kaassan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-12-15 04:57:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Erik Kaassan
I think everything that could be said on this matter has been said. I do not necessarily abide slavery and I recognize Mr. Ferro for his candor but getting rid of the Amarr as a signatory of CONCORD is playing a dangerous move. CONCORD is the gun pointed at the head of the galaxy. Remove it and old rivalries will flare up like they always have and lead to open conflict. You couldn't get a combined fleet against the Amarr anyways with that set up. My own people wouldn't want to lose Amarr's support to fight the Gallente and there is no guarantee the Gallente won't seize the opportunity to attack.

When that happens then? We Capsuleers will have to either isolate ourselves where nobody can touch us or choose a side. I for one am not interested in becoming any empires lap-dog and I'm sure my associates would agree.

Furthermore have you considered the Amarr's economic collapse if this were to happen as well as the IMMENSE influx of refugees to the Minmatar Republic it would cause? The Amarr economy and culture is engrained in slavery and will undoubtedly meet radical change with fierce resistance. If the Amarr were to abolish slavery then the Minmatar Republic would suffer as well. Your republic doesn't have the best standard of living and to take in such a massive influx of new, uneducated/low education, hungry, desperate slave families would strain things to their breaking point I'm sure.

On top of all of this is that you place the burden on CONCORD itself. This is a group founded and agreed upon by all of the empires. If one withdraws then the others will inevitably follow suite. It's a peace keeping force, and an impartial one at that, not a charity. I don't think they would agree to ever turn against the Amarr so suddenly or set up any kind of relief, especially the size you are suggesting.

The Sansha have already been branded as undesirables. CONCORD patrols the empires space for Sansha slavers as best as they can and look to capsuleers to make up the difference. I dont see how anything can change in that regard.

Again, I admire your spirit Mr. Ferro but what you suggest will not work for multiple reasons. The Amarr people and culture must come to the conclusion themselves that slavery should be abolished to ensure a safe and non-calamitous transition. I don't think that will happen any time soon.
Ferro Mapindazi
#62 - 2013-12-15 08:12:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ferro Mapindazi
Erik Kaassan wrote:
I think everything that could be said on this matter has been said. I do not necessarily abide slavery and I recognize Mr. Ferro for his candor but getting rid of the Amarr as a signatory of CONCORD is playing a dangerous move.
Pilot Erik thank you for your reasoned response.

The common themes I have heard is that "this is not a problem for me, so why should we bother?" and "the influx of the freed Matari will destroy at least two economies".

To answer the second theme first, I included that voluntary eradication of slavery does not require immediate relocation. It requires that the amarr treat the Matari inside their borders as full citizens with requisite rights, including fair pay and safe working conditions for the work they already do. So please lets all just agree we can put that weak excuse to bed permanently.

Recent history proves standing on the sidelines while this violence continues to run its bloody haphazard course is a risky and amoral proposition.

The Elder Fleet that defeated Concord opened the door for the Caldari rebellion. I am willing to bet both the Gallente and the Caldari governments thought by not siding with the immediate eradication of slavery they were avoiding being drawn into warfare. Turned out the safe play was the wrong choice.

Although we have seen no reemergence of the amarr wonder weapon that stopped the Elder Fleet Emancipation the technology that enabled them to overcome Concord is still readily available. So do not feel too comfortable with the balance of Concord in the cluster when any one (1) race has the power to overwhelm them without warning, should they decide to.

**Eject from your ship & flee! No quarter is given to the enemies of the Matari people and the Minmatar Republic! Drake Ashigaru Alliance, we hold fast to our principles, if we make a deal, we keep the deal, if you give your word you are bound by it.
Kane Kuchera
Into Oblivion.
Fraternity.
#63 - 2013-12-15 13:39:48 UTC
The simple matter of the issue, my good sir is one of money.

The Empire stands all her economic might on the backs of the poor and of the slave. The State makes billions on tariffs thanks to exports of raw ores and materials through Jita. All mined by Amarrian slaves.

Slavery is critical to the survival of the universe. Like it or not. What do backwards Tribesman with rust-buckets for ships propose to do about it? The Matari's success in the war thus far stands exclusively on the backs of miss guided sympathizers such as your self. It matters not; when the war is over the Matari will find them selves once again back under the heel, where they belong.

Those ungrateful slaves who no longer wish to live under the protection of the Amarr and it's allies are more than welcome to die. There are no shortage of replacements.
Lasairiona Raske
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#64 - 2013-12-15 14:53:37 UTC
Throughout the course of history, even before our time, there has always been slavery in some capacity. To think that you can abolish slavery in every corner of the cluster is naive. People just think your nuts, as shown by previous post. That's just my opinion on the matter, but my opinions are usually overlooked.

Are you a devil or an angel

Sent here from heaven or from hell?

Sweet temptress, I'm wrapped in your tangles

Can't find my way out of your spell
Haygrove
Doomheim
#65 - 2013-12-15 22:45:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Haygrove
Slavery is not isolated to only Amarrian interests, but is widespread across New Eden, even your precious Minmatar are known for enslaving not only their own kind but others, either out of spite or other "reasons". Slavery as you call it when pointing at the Amarrian state, is not "Slavery" as we see it. Sure there are deviants to the holy word and they suffer the judgement of God, but slavery exists in the Amarrian state to uplift and provide opportunity for those who do not know the glory of God. Those that toil do so for the State, and are secure in the knowledge that they have a place in the light of God.

CONCORD exists only with the good will of the Amarrian State. Any attempt by the other Empires or any other outside force to enforce justifications against our outreach to uplift the lost souls of New Eden will suffer retribution on a scale that not even they could comprehend. There are many of us who would welcome such, after all... the fall of CONCORD would hail the renewal of the Reclaiming.
Erik Kaassan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-12-15 23:13:26 UTC
Haygrove wrote:
Slavery is not isolated to only Amarrian interests, but is widespread across New Eden, even your precious Minmatar are known for enslaving not only their own kind but others, either out of spite or other "reasons". Slavery as you call it when pointing at the Amarrian state, is not "Slavery" as we see it. Sure there are deviants to the holy word and they suffer the judgement of God, but slavery exists in the Amarrian state to uplift and provide opportunity for those who do not know the glory of God. Those that toil do so for the State, and are secure in the knowledge that they have a place in the light of God.

CONCORD exists only with the good will of the Amarrian State. Any attempt by the other Empires or any other outside force to enforce justifications against our outreach to uplift the lost souls of New Eden will suffer retribution on a scale that not even they could comprehend. There are many of us who would welcome such, after all... the fall of CONCORD would hail the renewal of the Reclaiming.


You speak of uplifting but I see a thin veil to hide blatant Imperialism and domination. My people fought our way free of the Gallente and I will be spaced a 1000 times before the Amarr rule the galaxy.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#67 - 2013-12-16 05:35:23 UTC
Erik Kaassan wrote:
You speak of uplifting but I see a thin veil to hide blatant Imperialism and domination.


One could say the same thing about every nation in New Eden. What's your point?

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#68 - 2013-12-16 16:44:57 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Erik Kaassan wrote:
You speak of uplifting but I see a thin veil to hide blatant Imperialism and domination.


One could say the same thing about every nation in New Eden. What's your point?


What does it matter to someone who doesn't need uplifting as a reason for slavery? When did the Angels ever need a veneer for their slaving operations?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#69 - 2013-12-16 17:28:59 UTC
This thread is so full of irony from so, so many sources.

Congrats to OP for being one of the more intelligent people in the thread.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"