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Warfare & Tactics

 
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FW frigates PvP - questions about various fits

Author
Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-12-06 12:09:26 UTC
Hello guys,

it happened that I fly missile ships only (first toon caldari, and this one is a mission runner so missiles seemed natural for both) and kinda can't check myself, so I came here for some answers...

-What is the range (opti/falloff) of typical gun kiter? Are we talking good dps up to 20 km? Where does the crap dps start for various guns?

- What is generaly a reliable speed for people trying to catch up with a ktier? Around 3000 km/s ok, or do I need more?

- How fast do I need, and what orbit should I establish to tackle destroyers, and live till the rest of the gang comes?

Calculating gun basic stats and taking ships, and typical player's skill set into account would be a nightmare. I'm looking for general guideliness so I could try to test stuff.

Regards,
Thomas

"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe

Lexiana Del'Amore
Nouvelle Rouvenor
#2 - 2013-12-06 12:34:02 UTC
Buy yourself 15 to 20 condors and fit them with light missile launchers in highs, MWD, disruptor and 2 tracking disruptors in midslots, balistic control and a nano in lows... for rigs go speed as you'll need at least 3500m/s

This setup has zero tank, if you get scrammed or webbed you are toast, so use range and speed

Have both tracking speed and range scripts in your cargo... This is a easy fit in terms of PG and CPU and with some basic skills trained up should be capstable.

Next step is to go out there and engage as many different frigates as you can, over time you'll get a feel of what ships you can and can't engage succesfully.

Key is not to be discouraged by the loki boosted, snake implanted Usain Bolts of the eve universe that you will eventually run in to.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#3 - 2013-12-07 03:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
That's very good advice above. Condors are very good pvp frigates and perform well in FW plexes.

Hates them I does.

As I usually fly with rails (blasters are too short range for solo pvp) with Iridium the range is out to 20 + falloff, but the damage from iridium is not as good as antimatter and similar, that have shorter range.

If you use the advice above, you'll win more than you lose
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#4 - 2013-12-07 11:03:21 UTC
Most kiting turret frigs will orbit 20-24 km out to try and hold point on you as they widdle you down (some can have much longer ranges, but most will try to point you so if you're against a kiter expect a 20-24km+ range(links will increase a point range so they can sit even farther out if they have skirmish links). You can attempt to "slingshot" to either catch the target or get out of point range to make your escape. To slingshot first pick a celestial that is the opposite of your target burn towards it, then, flip a 180 once your target starts to approach towards you and try to catch him, when he starts turning around (so now your target is burning away from you because you were burning towards him) and it is apparent that you're not going to get the scram, flip another 180 and align towards the celestial you picked and burn towards it and either spam warp or wait for your target to once again turn towards you and do another 180 to try and catch him again. You pretty much ping pong until you either escape or catch him. Most good pilots will watch for this but it's always worth a shot.


Another thing you can do is artificially increase your missiles range. Say a comet is kiting you at a solid 22-24 km and the slingshot isn't working. Let's say you are in a rocket hookbill and with javelins you would get only 21ish km. He is just barely outside your range. What you would do in this situation is burn directly away from your target (sounds counter intuitive right?) but since that comet wants to hold point on you they will obviously burn towards you (and if they don't.... freedom \o/). Your rockets have a 21km range from the point of launch so since you are burning away from the comet and the comet is burning towards you, maintaining that 22-24km range the missiles will still hit the comet since it is burning towards the missiles as well and that point of launch is somewhere between you and the comet if you're burning away.

Also note that if the target is burning away from you and you're chasing, the reverse can happen where your missile range is noticeably lower than what the tooltip is saying because the point of launch is somewhere behind you.

As far as a reliable speed goes for catching kiters, it depends on what you're going against. Speeds from ship to ship and even fit to fit vary, get good at the slingshot and you'll catch a lot of stuff that's faster than you anyway.

Tackling a destroyer, again if varies but fit. Most destroyers have a tracking bonus, so you're going to have to determine whether or not it is a sniping dessie or a brawling one. If its a long range sniping dessie, orbit at 500, if its a brawler, kite it. Because of the tracking bonus sometimes you won't get into a perfect 500 orbit and since frigate sized guns you die. Dessies are fairly nasty. It'll just take a lot of practice.

Anyway, sorry about the wall of text I hope this helps Big smile
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-12-07 11:17:11 UTC
I haven't used a kiting condor, but I've locked down quite a few ships that were faster than me.

Keep at range 100k -> hit mwd -> turn off mwd -> overheat scram/mwd -> approach the moment mwd shuts off -> hit mwd so it activates as soon as your ship is pointed at the bad guy -> hope you get within scram range before mr kiter's ship reorients.

The above works, even without overheating, with surprising frequency. My 2600m/s battle venture caught and killed a 3700m/s condor doing this. My 3600m/s Ares has locked down quite a few 4500-6000m/s kiters doing this... So, as a condor pilot, pay attention for this.

I had a rifter catch my Ares by doing the above while I had orbit set to 16km. He was going about 2200m/s while I orbited at 3600m/s... and then suddenly I'm scrammed D:

Also can be used to run away... just approach with mwd on, turn it off, click align to something in opposite direction soon as mwd shuts down, hit mwd, spam click warp to freedom.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?

Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-12-09 07:38:52 UTC
thanks for all the advice guys!

"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe