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Two years later: Walking in Stations

First post
Author
Jia Cato
Drone Matriarch
#221 - 2013-12-09 10:29:18 UTC
I would definately like to see this walking in stations concept in action. I already like the captain's quarters, it helps with the immersion and it does not make me feel completely like I was just a spaceship and nothing more.

If the base work is already there, one could think it's not such a huge workload to expand on it? A bit at a time, corporation meeting rooms/HQ's, bars, lower levels of the station with low security (no station police, only elevator turrets ;D).

For a long time when people told me to try out EvE I usually told them that I dont want to play a game where I am a spaceship, I want to play a game where I fly a spaceship. CQ alone helps with this, and it would be exactly what I was talking about if they expanded on the WiS.

Sure not everyone want it, when did ever all people want the same thing? HTFU and realize that there's a place for all kinds of gameplay and mechanics in a game that tries to sell us capsuleer life in a huge universe. Sooner or later one game will bring this, and EvE is only a few steps away from it so why not go there before others will.

What comes to the "core and fundamental issues of EvE" that "needs to be sorted out first" - I dont know what that is, no clue tbh, but what I do know is that MMORPG's will always be full of issues, unbalance, bugs, less than ideal features and whatnot. They wont go away, if those issues are present in a 10 year old game, obvious conclusions can be made. Might aswell add some new gameplay features and not commit all resources on fixing something that never will fully be fixed.
Karynn Denton
Black Rebel Rifter Club
#222 - 2013-12-09 10:31:55 UTC
Naydra Adni wrote:

I want to dock in a station, strap on a side arm, slip a blade in my boot and walk down to the seedy bar on the lower level of a station., I want to head to the dark back corner where someone even more seedy is sitting at a table waiting and we work out a contract for moving some contraband.


I remember contraband trading being touted as one of things WiS would bring and at first I thought that sounded great.

However, my opinion quickly changed once I actually started smuggling and selling contraband.

The transaction itself isn't the exciting part of smuggling and it doesn't really need anything more than the player-to-player trade window or a WTB contract.
The exciting bit about smuggling is being in space with your illegal goods and here's where development needs to take place, rather than fleshing out the transaction part with WiS elements.

I would much rather development resources go into making smuggling in space more appealing and player-centric - players doing cargo scans and flagging smugglers as Suspect would be very nice, new mods for deep-scanning to counter blockade runner's immunity, hull mods for smugglers to counter NPC customs (but making them more vulnerable to player scans, for balance)... you get the idea Blink

Karynn Denton

Caravan Master

Erin Crawford
#223 - 2013-12-09 10:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
A lot of very interesting points of view in this thread.
*Snip* Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. ISD Ezwal.

As a new player also interested in a better and greater implementation of WiS, along side the already massive space play and after having read most of this thread I find the following posts most relevant to the issue:

GreenSeed wrote:
people thinking the whole "summer of rage" was because of Incarna and WiS should remain quiet when people are discussing things they know nothing about... the real reason entire corps hit the unsub button was the "golden ammo" pseudo leak.

as soon as that hit locals and alliance chats everywhere, no one threatened to unsub, they just did it. and it was that lack of warning and "omg im going to unsub" threads that sent CCP into panic mode, this wasn't a bunch of 13year olds threatening to unsub if they didn't get what they wanted, this was people that already said "**** it, im out", no farewell threads, no stuff giveaways, nothing, just a corp mail saying "sorry guys, im going back to minesweeper and solitaire".

the idea of killing the sandbox and introducing Aur for Standing, Aur for better ammo, and several other things along the same lines was the end of it for a lot of people.

it wasn't Wis, it was the Aur store. mainly the fact that they were breaking the promise of "only cosmetical items".

so no, Wis was just another niche feature that 60% of eve didn't care for, but the other 40% loved. just like when they finnaly get to do the fabled SoV revamp... guess what, most people live on high, whs or low... they don't care for SoV. still, everyone agrees that its necessary and would be nice to have, dynamic Sov means more Pew Pew, more Pew Pew, more life in the sandbox.

this is eve, we are used to having features that target some obscure section of the player base, and we are fine with it because we are not wowtards, we understand that in this game its all connected. and Wis is targeted to a section of the player base that loses ships, holds sov, carebears in high and Rps a pirate in low, they are everywhere, and more of them wouldn't hurt this game in the least bit.


^ This!

Stitcher wrote:
Mr Pragmatic wrote:
I beg to differ. But both sides are so entrenched their will be no convincing.


I tend to agree with the idea that when you're debating with somebody it's not so much about convincing them to change their mind as that's unlikely to happen - the objective is to figure out where the root of the disagreement is.

If the subject in question where there is objectively a correct answer, such as "Are humans apes?" Then if two people disagree over the answer then there's no middle ground - at least one of those people is wrong. In those cases, you can either convince the person who's in the wrong of their incorrectness and resolve it or (vastly more likely) the person who's in the right gives up out of exhaustion, disgust and frustration.

If two people disagree over something that is more subjective, such as "would EVE Online be enriched by the introduction of avatar-based gameplay?" then there's no "right" or "wrong" involved. Just value judgements. and in such cases, you almost never get a case where one side talks the other round to their point of view.

So the value of it all lies in figuring out where the fundamental disagreement is, which helps make informed decisions and allows third parties (such as the devs) to try and strip out the bias and emotive talk and see to the root of the conflict.

We've identified a fundamental disagreement in this thread already: some people think that the core of EVE is spaceships, some others think that the core of EVE is the sandbox and that spaceships are the medium through which the sandbox reaches us.

Of course, people in the former group are objectively wrong. Pirate


^ This!

Erica Dusette wrote:
That's true ^^

I think a big question folks need to ask themselves when discussing WiS is:

If CCP announced that they would never be releasing another update, that the current EVE right now (today) is how EVE is going to stay forever, would you leave or would you still play?

I'd still play. Because I have a **** ton of fun in the EVE of today.

If your answer is the same, you'd stay, then what's the problem with developing WiS??

If your answer is no, you'd leave, then it sounds like you don't much enjoy EVE as it is right now, you're not having fun and are only here for the pure chance that it might take a future development direction that you like.


^ …and this!!!

"Those who talk don’t know. Those who know don’t talk. "

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#224 - 2013-12-09 10:44:08 UTC
Naydra Adni wrote:

if you see that as eve/2nd life then that's your view.. I see it as a deeper level of immersion


No, its a fact.

You want shops and shopkeepers and fights with other avatars and devious deals and the police knocking at your door.

If there was a functioning model of that already it most definately is Second Life, when its played "right"

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#225 - 2013-12-09 10:44:28 UTC
Naydra Adni wrote:
I don't want to emote. I don't want to /dance. I don't want to "dress up" in nex clothes and show off.



WiS never been intendeed as an emoting/dancing/and so on platform. This is more a fantasy for forum trolls than a real design concept.

WiS have to be the equivalent of player housing in Ultuma Online (and in general, persistent player housing is a key feauture for any true sandbox game). Not like we have to re-invent the wheel.

NEX store should be removed. And everything related to WiS (not only avatar customization but any WiS module, rooms, furnitures, whatever have to be craftable (and destroyable or consumable) by players like any other industry good in EVE.

This can be extended to an exploration gameplay like already prototyped by CCP and then abbandoned.

Naydra Adni
Doomheim
#226 - 2013-12-09 13:08:03 UTC
years ago I was new to any type of mmo.. my only experience with rpg's was the kids in the hallway playing Dungeons & Dragons during lunch break.. but then I saw this Star Wars mmorpg.. galaxies was it? I thought fk yeah! I can be in Star Wars.. even better than Jedi knight.. I could make my own path and really live it!! but then I stepped outside the tatooine station and was swamped with a sea of bots "buy my stuff buy my stuff buy my stuff" and it took a lot away from the game, for me anyway.. that's my wis fear.. Jita bots materialized in form and in your face lol
fuzzy sweaters, cosmetic accessories.. meh.. not my thing either. but if people want to give money to CCP on top of their $15 monthly sub then ok.. as long as it is purely cosmetic and gives absolutely no help, benefit or buff to a player in or out of the pod.
but like you say.. it's a fine, dangerous line between eve-out-of-pod and 2nd life in space. more money is good for CCP, unless CCP starts to say "fk space ships.. check out these glitter pants I made for the next update!!" lol
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#227 - 2013-12-09 14:40:43 UTC
Bung it on a planet

Make it a Prometheus-like experience

(but without the Mr Burns-hires-Time Team vibe and terrbile story arc)

And Maybe we could have a worthy happytime funland

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#228 - 2013-12-09 14:46:46 UTC
Yeah, Prometheus wouldn't happen with EVE players because EVE players are actually smart, as opposed to the entire crew of Prometheus who were a pack of the worst dumbasses ever to grace the big screen.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#229 - 2013-12-09 14:53:18 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Yeah, Prometheus wouldn't happen with EVE players because EVE players are actually smart, as opposed to the entire crew of Prometheus who were a pack of the worst dumbasses ever to grace the big screen.


lol yeah

Even the simplest EvE player would realise that, with Xenobiology 5 corpses arent scary and wierd space-snakes shouldnt be poked

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#230 - 2013-12-09 15:03:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
that is a lot of content, you could make whole another game from it. Something less would feel like cq.
Hemi DarkStar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2013-12-09 15:34:40 UTC
If were going ALIEN:

How about while you are in CQ, the door suddenly opens and the station alarm goes off.

Something is in the station...

No weapons, you would have to hide with say 3 other players from whatever is in there. Progressing through the station by walking it's corridors, making sure you don't get seen by whatever is out there. Some area's only have 2 hide spaces to use, so you will be forced find them asap before the other players do. If you don't find it in time, you die and respawn in your CQ and try again from start or just wait until the others get to the end-goal. End goal is to turn off the alarm and blow the creature out of the airlock lol. You get a fancy implant as a thank you from the station manager.

Maybe get a penalty for dieing, or at the start you can choose not to participate and close your CQ door again.

meh...maybe not for EVE lol.
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#232 - 2013-12-09 15:36:47 UTC
Hemi DarkStar wrote:


Maybe get a penalty for dieing, or at the start you can choose not to participate and close your CQ door again.

meh...maybe not for EVE lol.


Its always a stand up fight

Never a bughunt

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Hemi DarkStar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2013-12-09 15:40:09 UTC
Maybe a deranged jump-clone instead of bugs, whehehe. Big smile
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#234 - 2013-12-09 15:40:24 UTC
not very EVE, no. I mean, rogue drones infesting the station could be cool, but you'd think that the stations would have the ability to deal with that kind of thing themselves, without having to rely on whatever capsuleers happen to be docked right now.

Like I say, I'm thinking more in terms of heists, black market deals, and basically exploiting the baseliner population for fun and profit.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#235 - 2013-12-09 15:47:40 UTC
"This is Dustside One to Cap"

"Cap Orbital Actual, go ahead Dustside"

"Yeah, we have secured what seems to be a Jove shuttle at the recon site. Requesting Capsuleer support to help fly this thing out of here, over"

"Roger that. Have Combat Section armed and ready to escort Pilot to shuttle for recovery"

"Confirmed Cap. Section 22 will meet at DZ.... one sec..."

*crackle"

"We have inbound bogies 7-5-9er. Cap, if you are sending that Egger down, do it now, we got fifteen before this place is swarming with CFC mercs, over"

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Hemi DarkStar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#236 - 2013-12-09 15:50:05 UTC
Yeah, I was going on the fact that suddenly that door opens. I know it would scare the sht out of me lol.


Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#237 - 2013-12-09 15:54:03 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
not very EVE, no. I mean, rogue drones infesting the station could be cool, but you'd think that the stations would have the ability to deal with that kind of thing themselves, without having to rely on whatever capsuleers happen to be docked right now.



it's kinda like the CCP prototype about exploration inside abbandoned structures described here.

That would be very cool, mostly if done so you cannot know if other players are already inside, exploring or waiting to ambush you.

Then I'd like to have it extended to infiltrating inside FW bunkers or to sabotage POS, POCOS and so on.

But this is already an advanced gameplay, the first step is still having rooms/gameplay able to handle interactions for a limited number of avatars.
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#238 - 2013-12-09 16:09:39 UTC
I'm still all for bringing back the Gallente Pleasure station (Quafe station). I like the Blue, the 'city feel' of it. But one thing about the CQ right now is that it does seem heavy on video cards even at lower settings. Some refinement of that engine would be good so we can interact without killing RL equipment.
Garric Blackk
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#239 - 2013-12-09 16:18:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Garric Blackk
Stitcher wrote:
Garric Blackk wrote:
I like the WiS stuff but at this point they need to focus on inspace things.


When will that change, exactly? I keep seeing it said, but they've been focusing on inspace things for ten years. It's NEVER going to be perfect. There's no such thing as perfect. There is only "good enough."

So when, in your view, will EVE have reached the point that they won't need to focus on inspace things at the expense of any other option? When will inspace have been sufficiently fleshed out that you think that the game will be ready for EVE in Stations?



When the Devs and the community decide that the game is balanced. Don't get me wrong, I would like to see more "stuff to do" inside a station but right now there are more important things to focus on.

I would love to see the Dev's work on Null Sec and/or work on some of the things implemented from Rubicon.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#240 - 2013-12-09 16:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Garric Blackk wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Garric Blackk wrote:
I like the WiS stuff but at this point they need to focus on inspace things.


When will that change, exactly? I keep seeing it said, but they've been focusing on inspace things for ten years. It's NEVER going to be perfect. There's no such thing as perfect. There is only "good enough."

So when, in your view, will EVE have reached the point that they won't need to focus on inspace things at the expense of any other option? When will inspace have been sufficiently fleshed out that you think that the game will be ready for EVE in Stations?



When the Devs and the community decide that the game is balanced.


I'm pretty sure that the community couldn't reach consensus on the location of our respective buttocks, let alone on whether the game has now reached a point where all of our pet bugbears have been dealt with. That's far too vague a response.

Quote:
I would love to see the Dev's work on Null Sec and/or work on some of the things implemented from Rubicon.


Specifically? What's wrong with nullsec in your opinion?

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders