These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Divi Filus
New Xenocracy
#1921 - 2014-01-10 19:42:41 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Steph Livingston wrote:
Cost is directly related to demand anyways, if no one buys a Nestor at 2b the prices will just keep dropping until people start finding them attractive.

No, the Isk-LP conversion rate will still be pegged to the next highest item, probably the Stratios (because that ship actually fits more than a few roles rather well). No one is gonna go for the 1000isk/lp* Nestor when they could sell the 2000 isk/lp* Stratios (*not actual lp figures). People simply won't turn in their LP for the Nestor, and it will remain unused.


In order to make the same ISK/LP that you can currently get for building and selling a Stratios, you’d have to sell the Nestor for just under 1.5 billion plus material costs. Sure, there will be people who can’t calculate costs and go for the Nestor anyway, but the majority of farmers can be expected to stick with the more popular and profitable Stratios (not to mention the Virtues, the Sisters combat probes, etc.)

You also have to remember that the price of other pirate faction ships is not solely dependent on the LP Store, as the Sisters ships are; sov holders and renters can pick up pirate blueprint drops by running sites, which increases supply and drives down prices (a mechanism that doesn’t exist for SoE).
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1922 - 2014-01-10 19:49:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Divi Filus wrote:
You also have to remember that the price of other pirate faction ships is not solely dependent on the LP Store, as the Sisters ships are; sov holders and renters can pick up pirate blueprint drops by running sites, which increases supply and drives down prices (a mechanism that doesn’t exist for SoE).

Well, to be completely fair, ships of those factions can't be farmed in hisec.
Then again, pirate BSs have dropped in price recently and I'm sure that has something to do with explo...

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Antar Logan
Tr0pa de elite.
Fraternity.
#1923 - 2014-01-10 21:01:10 UTC
Let it be able to jump to covert cynos through blops. Ability makes sense in all realms including its reduced mass, making it only non-blops and non-covert to do so yet taking up a good chunk of topes as it is still a BS size ship.
Death Impact
Special Assault Unit
Pandemic Horde
#1924 - 2014-01-10 22:45:03 UTC
that would be a great black ops Big smile

Astero -> is half Covert Ops

Stratios -> is half Force Recon

Nestor -> xx = maybe Black Ops ???
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1925 - 2014-01-11 00:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Divi Filus wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Steph Livingston wrote:
Cost is directly related to demand anyways, if no one buys a Nestor at 2b the prices will just keep dropping until people start finding them attractive.

No, the Isk-LP conversion rate will still be pegged to the next highest item, probably the Stratios (because that ship actually fits more than a few roles rather well). No one is gonna go for the 1000isk/lp* Nestor when they could sell the 2000 isk/lp* Stratios (*not actual lp figures). People simply won't turn in their LP for the Nestor, and it will remain unused.


In order to make the same ISK/LP that you can currently get for building and selling a Stratios, you’d have to sell the Nestor for just under 1.5 billion plus material costs. Sure, there will be people who can’t calculate costs and go for the Nestor anyway, but the majority of farmers can be expected to stick with the more popular and profitable Stratios (not to mention the Virtues, the Sisters combat probes, etc.)

You also have to remember that the price of other pirate faction ships is not solely dependent on the LP Store, as the Sisters ships are; sov holders and renters can pick up pirate blueprint drops by running sites, which increases supply and drives down prices (a mechanism that doesn’t exist for SoE).


tbh with current conversion a nestor should be about 1.8b isk (5 times 350M + some mats (bs eat them compared to cruiser))

EDIT: @CCP Rise why did ccp choose that type of drone bonus, i personally would have preferred the tracking + range Boni
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1926 - 2014-01-11 01:52:58 UTC
Not entirely sure why I'd pay a 3-4x premium over most Pirate or Faction battleships... Nestor: the new Monacle.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
zerquse
Stellar Masons
#1927 - 2014-01-11 04:08:23 UTC  |  Edited by: zerquse
just make it a faction Marauder . Example.
This would be useful.

NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Shield resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
10% drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role bonuses:
50% bonus to drone tracking speed.
50% increased MWD speed of drones.
Bastion module affects drones instead of weapons.
+10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

Slot layout: 4H, 7M, 5L; 0 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 9000 PWG, 890 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 11000 / 4000 / 5000
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 95km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 1400
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1928 - 2014-01-11 04:14:47 UTC
Amarr is armor resistances, and Bastion is unique to the Marauder.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
zerquse
Stellar Masons
#1929 - 2014-01-11 04:16:23 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Amarr is armor resistances, and Bastion is unique to the Marauder.

Im aware of that genius
Mary Titania
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1930 - 2014-01-11 04:37:36 UTC
It is writing through the translation site does not release the English

Either place the increase of WarpCore strength to the bonus of the ship in order to activate the exploration activities in LowSec, and to so are skilled in handling of the ECM drones and what about?
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#1931 - 2014-01-11 04:42:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Iyacia Cyric'ai
I'm there will be collectors who will buy it just so they have the trinity set (gotta catch'em all!), but otherwise I don't see the point of flying a 2 billion isk ship that arguably isn't even better than a T1 Dominix.

Quote:
"We all agreed that keeping the covert cloak theme was not going to work for the battleship."


Who is "we"? And why won't it work for the battleship?
Fortorn Lonshanks
Adeptus Incursio
#1932 - 2014-01-11 06:30:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Fortorn Lonshanks
CCP Rise wrote:
DrunkenNinja wrote:
Quote:

Nestor
1,000,000 LP
100,000,000 ISK


Seriously?


This is the same markup in high-sec that the Stratios and Astero get.


Yes but those ships are T1 hulls with unique faction properties, chief among them is the cov ops cloak.

While yes you can fit a cloak to any ship in game but freighters and shuttles, the cov ops enables mobility as well as stealth.

Why would we limit this aspect in the battleship. Are we too afraid it would compete with the transport ships once the lows are filled with expanded cargo holds? Do we really need to train jump drive operation to fly a mobile cloaked battleship?

The lack of cov ops cloak is very disappointing. This ship in my opinion is purpose built to fill one role only, the spider tank sentry drone bunny tower bash fleets.

It simply replaces the dominix with more survivability. None of the "mobility" other than mass is there that was supposed to be the hallmark of SoE ships.

EDIT: Also, while I can understand that having cloaky battleships is something people just cant get their head around they have exsited for a long time. And given the enormous cost of this in LP and the terrible exchange rate for concord LP, this will compete in price with black ops ships. Black ops will still be more expensive but rightly so - black ops can fit a jump drive.

While the range bonus seems to be what people want here for a variety of reasons, I think the true loss is the cov ops cloak. With cov ops, this becomes the first truly mobile battleship.

Its EHP will be substantially less because its structure is less and thus has the rep bonuses because its meant to fly in groups. Speed in, speed out. Sacrifice tank for speed. Use tech and tactics to make up for EHP loss in structure. But without the cov ops cloak this thing is FAR to expensive. Its just a tower basher.

And by the way we have those specialized tower bashers in game for about the same price ALREADY.

They are called dreadnoughts.
Fortorn Lonshanks
Adeptus Incursio
#1933 - 2014-01-11 07:06:12 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
This ship should be the heavy hitter of the SOE ships.

Ditch the RR bonus, its something the Dominix has always wanted (750% RR range for the Dominix).

The hacking bonus is a waste as well, sure it can survive the can explosion and rats of ghost sites and it should because there is little chance it will successfully hack more than one can.

The probing bonus 37.5% will find anything a BS needs to be able to find.

Drop the turrets down to 4.
50% Large Energy Turret Damage.
50% Large Energy Turret and Sentry Drone Optimal Range
37.5% Scanner Probe Strength

That will put the ship at 715.5 DPS before damage mods and implants, using 4 Mega Pulse Laser IIs (Scorch L) and 5 Garde IIs


This combines Rattleshake and nightmare. Way OP.
sabastyian
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#1934 - 2014-01-11 07:14:10 UTC
Fortorn Lonshanks wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
This ship should be the heavy hitter of the SOE ships.

Ditch the RR bonus, its something the Dominix has always wanted (750% RR range for the Dominix).

The hacking bonus is a waste as well, sure it can survive the can explosion and rats of ghost sites and it should because there is little chance it will successfully hack more than one can.

The probing bonus 37.5% will find anything a BS needs to be able to find.

Drop the turrets down to 4.
50% Large Energy Turret Damage.
50% Large Energy Turret and Sentry Drone Optimal Range
37.5% Scanner Probe Strength

That will put the ship at 715.5 DPS before damage mods and implants, using 4 Mega Pulse Laser IIs (Scorch L) and 5 Garde IIs


This combines Rattleshake and nightmare. Way OP.

Cause 700 dps on a battleship is acceptable.....my cruiser doesnt do that much......
Divi Filus
New Xenocracy
#1935 - 2014-01-11 07:16:17 UTC
Fortorn Lonshanks wrote:
Also, while I can understand that having cloaky battleships is something people just cant get their head around they have exsited for a long time.


The difference between a black ops ship and what you’re asking of the Nestor is the ability to fit a covert cloak (which black ops cannot). So it seems a bit disingenuous to say that cloaky battleships have existed for a long time when what you’re asking for, i.e. a covert capable BS, has not. That being said, the suggestion to give the Nestor the same cloaked movement speed bonus that black ops get has come up several times in this thread already.

Fortorn Lonshanks wrote:
And given the enormous cost of this in LP and the terrible exchange rate for concord LP, this will compete in price with black ops ships. Black ops will still be more expensive but rightly so - black ops can fit a jump drive.


At current exchange rate, the Nestor would actually be roughly twice as expensive as a black ops battleship.

Fortorn Lonshanks wrote:
While the range bonus seems to be what people want here for a variety of reasons, I think the true loss is the cov ops cloak. With cov ops, this becomes the first truly mobile battleship.


If you think a range bonus is “what people want here,” I have to wonder if you’ve read past, say, page ten of the thread.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1936 - 2014-01-11 08:58:29 UTC
Honestly with the current powergrid issues I don't see much point in keeping the bonus for the large lasers as there is honestly not enough room for them and something in the two utility slots.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1937 - 2014-01-11 09:05:25 UTC
I put the smallest size of large beams on. They aren't very useful, but when are lasers ever spectacular on a Sisters ship?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1938 - 2014-01-11 09:22:48 UTC
It's not getting a Covert Ops cloaking device… It should be immediately apparent that the only battleship that may (emphasis on "may") be able to run one down the road is Black Ops.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Fortorn Lonshanks
Adeptus Incursio
#1939 - 2014-01-11 09:26:02 UTC
Divi Filus wrote:
If you think a range bonus is “what people want here,” I have to wonder if you’ve read past, say, page ten of the thread.


Highly schizophrenic thread here though.

I have seen people call for virtually every improvement on any and all existing battleship, command ship, and capital platform.

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1940 - 2014-01-11 10:42:39 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
It's not getting a Covert Ops cloaking device… It should be immediately apparent that the only battleship that may (emphasis on "may") be able to run one down the road is Black Ops.


It SHOULD get a covert cloak though... A black ops ship with a covert cloak would be way more overpowered than a Nestor with a cloak.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...