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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1861 - 2014-01-09 14:13:18 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Morning!

I feel a lot less strongly about the cloaked velocity bonus, it seems kind of awkward to me but I'll bring it up with the other balance guys to be sure.




Thanks it's apreasiated
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1862 - 2014-01-09 14:14:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
CCP Rise wrote:
A small update for you guys - going to adjust the warp Nestor's warp speed to match Battlecruiser warp speed rather than Battleship. That is a warp speed multiplier of 2.5 rather than 2.0.

This suggestion has come up a few times and it matches well with the extremely low mass and should be something that everyone is happy to have.

I think this is a step in the right direction. What about ditching the logistics aspect entirely and giving the Nestor a -50% reduction to CPU penalties when utilizing Hyperspacial rigs? This would give it a potential non-Ascendancy warp speed of 4.88 AU/s without also penalizing the tight fitting requirements. There's still that Rescue Shuttle; it seems like a waste to have this feature cosmetic in nature only…

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1863 - 2014-01-09 14:35:30 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Being as this is a drone ship, I feel I can ask this question in a on-topic style.

The state of heavy drones.
There mostly garbage, everyone generally knows why.
I have been thinking on how to fix them, and see one option that could be considered a quick fix but will help them become viable.

Increasing there optimal range to 10km, which with skills would bring it to 12.5km, on a Dominix would bring there range to about 17km, with a Dominix and 2 omnidirectional tracking links about 26km.
It would allow heavy drone to begin dealing damage earlier.
With how drone mechanics work they will continue to travel toward there target till they begin to orbit a 1km. So smart bombing will still be a viable defense against them.



Need to be careful with the values (altough the core of the idea is nice). IT would require an extension of smartbomb range, otherwise large drones would be immune.


I would in fact love if heavy drone had a "TINY JUMP DRIVE" so they can jump 50 km ranges instantly then cover the rest by normal movment.

A mini MJD for heavy drones would be nice but it may make there projection too great, and make there close 20~30km range still terrible.

All drones orbit at 1km and not at their optimal, so while out past smartbomb range they still will be slow enough to be shot down, and will still orbit within smart bomb range.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1864 - 2014-01-09 14:47:07 UTC
It warps faster now guys every problem with the ship is totally fixed and it's now worth using.

Not.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#1865 - 2014-01-09 14:47:10 UTC
Not sure if this has been suggested in the previous 90+ pages.

I'd quite like it to have the ability to use prop. mods whilst cloaked. So it would also have to be immune to the speed penalty to regular cloaks.

It still wouldn't be able to warp cloaked but once on grid it could move around freely.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1866 - 2014-01-09 14:49:41 UTC
People are askign TOO much of a signle ship. With all these bonuses.. the ship should be renamed to MacGyver

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1867 - 2014-01-09 14:50:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It warps faster now guys every problem with the ship is totally fixed and it's now worth using.

Not.


This.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
People are askign TOO much of a signle ship. With all these bonuses.. the ship should be renamed to MacGyver


Au contraire! We want useful bonuses/abilities to replace the redundant ones.

.
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
#1868 - 2014-01-09 15:04:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Steph Livingston
Savira Terrant wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
People are askign TOO much of a signle ship. With all these bonuses.. the ship should be renamed to MacGyver


Au contraire! We want useful bonuses/abilities to replace the redundant ones.


Just to put it in perspective, every other pirate fraction BS has one special ability bonus. It may not have the same damage of the other factions, but you could argue the RR amount / distance bonuses are worth about the same advantage, but a different role. The fact that the Nestor also receives a scan bonus, laser optimal bonus, mass bonus, warp bonus, and analyzer bonus, is just icing on the cake.

If they straight up dropped a few of the bonuses the ship would still be balanced, it would just have a more defined role.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1869 - 2014-01-09 15:16:27 UTC
Steph Livingston wrote:
Savira Terrant wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
People are askign TOO much of a signle ship. With all these bonuses.. the ship should be renamed to MacGyver


Au contraire! We want useful bonuses/abilities to replace the redundant ones.


Just to put it in perspective, every other pirate fraction BS has one special ability bonus. It may not have the same damage of the other factions, but you could argue the RR amount / distance bonuses are worth about the same advantage, but a different role. The fact that the Nestor also receives a scan bonus, laser optimal bonus, mass bonus, warp bonus, and analyzer bonus, is just icing on the cake.

If they straight up dropped a few of the bonuses the ship would still be balanced, it would just have a more defined role.



That is exactly what I meant to say. It already is the most bonused ship ever seen.


The ship is strong. The problem lies elsewhere, on the fact that logistic ships are TOO strong.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#1870 - 2014-01-09 15:17:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Owen Levanth
Steph Livingston wrote:
Savira Terrant wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
People are askign TOO much of a signle ship. With all these bonuses.. the ship should be renamed to MacGyver


Au contraire! We want useful bonuses/abilities to replace the redundant ones.


Just to put it in perspective, every other pirate fraction BS has one special ability bonus. It may not have the same damage of the other factions, but you could argue the RR amount / distance bonuses are worth about the same advantage, but a different role. The fact that the Nestor also receives a scan bonus, laser optimal bonus, mass bonus, warp bonus, and analyzer bonus, is just icing on the cake.

If they straight up dropped a few of the bonuses the ship would still be balanced, it would just have a more defined role.


I think I have the solution to make the Nestor truly unique: Strip out the bonus RR amount and -distance, strip out most of its dronebay and take out the bonus to drones and give it a damage bonus to lasers instead.

Add the truly unique idea I had in this thread, and we're golden. Think about it: Random chance based jump drive, but without need of a cyno beacon.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1871 - 2014-01-09 15:41:47 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:


The ship is strong. The problem lies elsewhere, on the fact that logistic ships are TOO strong.


I agree here. The oneiros and scimitar are at least killable without a specific counter fleet. guardians and basilisks need a look. Either a reduction of high slots or the removal of the cap use bonus.

In addition, as it stands it's possible to build a cap-stable solo guardian with 4 large remote reps, 1 large remote cap and a local tank. It totally obsoletes the oneiros which I imagine is supposed to be the skirmish support logi.

thus:

[Guardian, hero]

4x Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Small Nosferatu II

10MN Afterburner II
Large Capacitor Battery II

Internal Force Field Array I
2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer (Nanite Repair Paste)

2x Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II

5x Light Armor Maintenance Bot II

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1872 - 2014-01-09 15:45:34 UTC
"Basilisks need a look" hahahahaha

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1873 - 2014-01-09 15:45:36 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Steph Livingston wrote:
Savira Terrant wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
People are askign TOO much of a signle ship. With all these bonuses.. the ship should be renamed to MacGyver


Au contraire! We want useful bonuses/abilities to replace the redundant ones.


Just to put it in perspective, every other pirate fraction BS has one special ability bonus. It may not have the same damage of the other factions, but you could argue the RR amount / distance bonuses are worth about the same advantage, but a different role. The fact that the Nestor also receives a scan bonus, laser optimal bonus, mass bonus, warp bonus, and analyzer bonus, is just icing on the cake.

If they straight up dropped a few of the bonuses the ship would still be balanced, it would just have a more defined role.



That is exactly what I meant to say. It already is the most bonused ship ever seen.


The ship is strong. The problem lies elsewhere, on the fact that logistic ships are TOO strong.



And I meant to say that "we" want a battleship for exploration, balanced around a jump drive. If that means no analyzer-, scan-, laser range-, warp-, mass-, RR-, and drone bonus - so be it.

.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1874 - 2014-01-09 15:53:20 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"Basilisks need a look" hahahahaha


Just because they aren't used very much doesn't mean they aren't OP :-)

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
Ushra'Khan
#1875 - 2014-01-09 16:33:38 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"Basilisks need a look" hahahahaha


Just because they aren't used very much doesn't mean they aren't OP :-)


they aren't used because there is no 0.0 sentri battleship doctrine which is shield fit and smaller roaming fleets like to use the more mobile scimitar.
make the domi a shield tanked ship and you will have basilisks all over 0.0

i am in for all the speeding while cloaking stuff, when in turn the targeting delay after decloaking is at least doubled and sentri assist disabled.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1876 - 2014-01-09 16:53:12 UTC
Thanks for the clarification, CCP Rise. Shame, this had the potential to be an interesting ship. Oh well.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#1877 - 2014-01-09 18:16:04 UTC
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"Basilisks need a look" hahahahaha


Just because they aren't used very much doesn't mean they aren't OP :-)


they aren't used because there is no 0.0 sentri battleship doctrine which is shield fit and smaller roaming fleets like to use the more mobile scimitar.
make the domi a shield tanked ship and you will have basilisks all over 0.0

i am in for all the speeding while cloaking stuff, when in turn the targeting delay after decloaking is at least doubled and sentri assist disabled.



what about the Rattlesnake?.....well we need a shield tanking dronebat anyways.....at least a cheap one...

now on topic, how about making it the first subcap ship with a 7/7/7 layout?....or at least a 6/7/7, even 5/7/7, if its gonna be based on the gnosis at least give it a slot layout that allows for either shield or armor, but sacrifice highslots to compensate. i think a 5/7/7 would be enough. makes people decide if they want to use all the highslots in turrets, or if they want to sacrifice that extra DPS for repping cabalities
Roy Alleyne
Dark Knowledge.
#1878 - 2014-01-09 19:23:46 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Morning!

A small update for you guys - going to adjust the warp Nestor's warp speed to match Battlecruiser warp speed rather than Battleship. That is a warp speed multiplier of 2.5 rather than 2.0.

This suggestion has come up a few times and it matches well with the extremely low mass and should be something that everyone is happy to have.

Appreciate your post XvXTeacherVxV, on the two topics you asked about: I think a jump drive would mean redesigning the entire ship. It's such a powerful capability and we decided earlier on that we would rather do something else than add more fast travel (whether through covert bridging or jump drive) and so we designed the ship with that in mind. I would expect that Black Ops can fill this need when they are rebalance since they are more explicitly meant for that kind of gameplay. Hopefully we can get to them soon. I feel a lot less strongly about the cloaked velocity bonus, it seems kind of awkward to me but I'll bring it up with the other balance guys to be sure.


Increased warp speed sounds very nice for keeping up with an exploration fleet. I'm sure I can speak for at least a few people and say that we appreciate that your willing to put cloaked velocity on the table and take a hard look at it, that is all we asked for. Big smile
Divi Filus
New Xenocracy
#1879 - 2014-01-09 19:34:47 UTC
Increased warp speed gives it a nice bit of flavor compared to other battleship hulls and is certainly welcome, but as I wrote before I'm not sure it's enough of a bonus in re travel and exploration by itself. To that end I appreciate your bringing the cloaked movement speed bonus to the rest of the balance team for discussion.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1880 - 2014-01-09 19:48:48 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I think a jump drive would mean redesigning the entire ship.

TBH this might be a good idea with or without the jump drive.

Let's take a step back for a minute, because there is an obvious disconnect between many of the posters in this thread and the vision you present.

CCP Rise wrote:
For instance, a small PVP group might love to take advantage of the probing bonus for getting quicker results on enemy snipers or safed up opponents.


Do you really think that people will spend 1-2 bil for a mediocre logi battleship? I mean ffs the ship costs as much as an archon! Meanwhile Guardians are a superlative logi alternative in a much lower price range. Maybe I'm dumb, but I just don't see it.

Could you perhaps elaborate on how you see this ship being used (preferably with specific examples)?