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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2013-12-03 20:13:09 UTC
Ok, my first impression is that I'm rather underwhelmed. Lets look at the details here...

First off, the bonus's.

Armor resist bonus
Drone Damage bonus
RR amount
Large Energy Turret Optimal
Scan Probe Strength
+ virus strength

Armor resist, drone damage, no biggie. Nothing too interesting there. Energy turret optimal? ok, I suppose so.

RR amount? With no range bonus? This means that you are sitting around with an optimal of about 8ish km. Less than scram range. There is a reason why T3's are rarely used for logi's, and its not the price. Its the pathetic range of RR. Really to be used effectively, we need a RR range between 15 and 20km. Whether this is accomplished via a range bonus, or by changing the module itself, as it is, the range is too short to be used effectively. Attempting to do so will leave you a giant target for bombs, and makes it way too easy to get out of range either due to poor maneuvering, or getting bumped.

So these bonuses are all combining to say "I'm a giant brick that is going to sit still, not move, and let everything come to me". Then you look at the mass, which comes in at around half that of most other BS's. This is just screaming maneuverability, kiting around, and emphasizing movement. But the bonuses are saying otherwise. And we come back to maneuverability, but pitiful rep range, but a bonus to RR.

Moving on, lets look at the scan probe strength and virus strength. This is screaming "Probe with me, explore with me". With a 1+ bil isk ship. Between the mobility of this ship and its price tag, there is nothing to recommend this ship for exploration over the stratios, a T3, or using 2 characters, 1 scanning, 1 running sites. The only people who are going to use this for actual exploration are idiots, as something with this price tag will bring far too much unwelcome attention coming for it. These bonuses are going to get wasted, and go unused the majority of the time.

Next, lets look at the slot layout. 7/6/6, with bonus to armor tanking, and drones. Having utility mids is nice - but it isn't that nice. Really this ship needs a 7/5/7, or a 6/5/8 slot layout to be able to fit both tank and damage. 6 mids is waaaaay overkill for what this ship actually needs, while 6 lows is really too little for a ship that is expected to armor tank and fit actual damage.

All in all, I think I'll hold off on this ship in its current form, and stick with the stratios instead. The nestor doesn't provide enough to be worth its price tag, is too conflicted about what it actually wants to do, and doesn't excel in any one area enough to be worth picking up for any purpose.

-Arazel
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#142 - 2013-12-03 20:14:48 UTC
Tiberizzle wrote:
hi guys like drop the laser bonus and make this a blops bs, it doesn't even need to get a covert cloak, just the velocity modifier and jump drive ok

nobody's going to use a 1.5B RR BS that can't even covert jump except maybe some niche lowsec and syndicate nerds nobody cares about, but this set of bonuses (except the probing bonus lol?) would be perfect for (and is mostly in line with) the current blops BS roles

you already made the frigate and cruiser covert and the theme established for covert BS is jump drive / cloaked velocity

don't leave us hanging like this we were all expecting a covert BS X

Quoting for truth -- this would turn the Nestor from an uninteresting gimmick not worth its cost to a useful workhorse ship that we can inspire hundreds to train for and use.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#143 - 2013-12-03 20:19:12 UTC
Oh, an addendum -- to differentiate this ship from Blackops BS, I would say that the Nestor should not be able to fit the Covert Jump Portal Generator (blops bridge). This ties in with the general theme of the Sisters of Eve ships having limited, but not full covert capabilities (c.f. Astero and Stratios are unable to use covert cynos.)

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

GreenSeed
#144 - 2013-12-03 20:21:18 UTC
looks pretty strong at the 40km - 50km mark with Sentries and pulses.

couldn't it be an Ewar platform instead of an RR boat? a long point / long web battleship would be great, and would see some use... long range RR? pointless. any real Logi will wipe the floor with this slowpoke, and a spider setup with other battleships will never use the bonus range, unless they want to screw up their sentry blap capabilities.
Deithess
#145 - 2013-12-03 20:22:26 UTC
A special logi bs. This is what many people are waiting for.

Imo, this ship should have:

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
10% drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role bonuses:
150% bonus to Energy Transfer Array and Remote Armor Repair System range
20% bonus to Remote Armor Repair System capacitor use
40% reduction in the amount of heat damage absorbed by modules

Notes: Can fit covert ops cloaks and covert cynosural field generators. Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds.

Other nice bonuses: navigation, targeting
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#146 - 2013-12-03 20:23:25 UTC
Arazel Chainfire wrote:


RR amount? With no range bonus?


Maybe CCP are going to be sensible and drop logistics rep range bonuses massively.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#147 - 2013-12-03 20:25:10 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it:

Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both?
Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount?

Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.


I spent years in a wormhole running spider-tanked battleship logistics, and now I fly logi in large fleet actions out in null. The need to keep the entire fleet bunched up on one another at times made maneuvering an annoying and frustrating proposition.

So, yes: for PVE and PVP, it needs a 100% range bonus to be effective. I'd say you want the amount bonus as well, or these things are going to be devoting an excessive amount of their slots to cap regen - especially since they're using energy weapons, which also need heavy cap recharge.
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#148 - 2013-12-03 20:27:10 UTC
Deithess wrote:
Notes: Can fit covert ops cloaks and covert cynosural field generators. Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds.


Definitely not.

No sig.

Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#149 - 2013-12-03 20:27:44 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Maennas Vaer wrote:
Feels very bland I'm afraid.

Disappointed it isn't a blops. Sad


They said it would be for wormholes. What use would jump bridging be in wormholes? Besides, there's nothing stopping you from fitting an Improved Cloak like a blackops.

I think we all expected that it wouldn't be a true covert-ops battleship.


For WH exploration? Yeah I'm not seeing it...
roxtarr
State War Academy
Caldari State
#150 - 2013-12-03 20:31:55 UTC
imagine the tinker possibilities.

tinker
tinker
drink the water!!
Brad314
Perkone
Caldari State
#151 - 2013-12-03 20:32:05 UTC
Alright. The major flaw I see with it is 'Why fly it over another ship?' I don't see where it brings something unique to the table (other than its large price tag) RR with drones? A Domi is 1/8th the cost. Scanning ship? Why use a BS over something that is nimble and can warp while cloaked?

What if you dropped the laser bonus, the scan bonus, and the virus bonus and instead gave it a velocity bonus while cloaked and the ability to fit one (1 single) command link? Combine that with swapping out the amount bonus for the RR with a range and you'd have a unique ship.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#152 - 2013-12-03 20:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Someone suggested just chucking the exploration bonuses and turn this ship into a spacepriest. Maybe this might work.

1) Chuck the laser optimal bonus, its of no real use on this ship.

2) Give the ship the covops cloak so it can blackops jump and operate in low/null

3) Give it a MJD (micro jump drive) bonus the marauders have. It will need mobility for the next part.

4) Increase the remote repair range to 300% percent (range of roughly 30 to 40km should do)

5) Give it the bastion module.

You now have a sentry-based blackops logistic marauder. Covops cloak, sentries, bastion module resistances, remote repairs, billion+ isk ship. Completely unique in its role.


That is one hell of a spacepriest. Completely Overpowered to hell and back. A gang would love one (or 20) of these with them. A logistics battleship that can tank, can jump stargates and wormholes, can use blackops as a travel option, and utilizes the newest abilities of the marauder.

With all of that, it MIGHT be worth a billion + isk. Call it a Mini Logistically capable flying covert carrier.

EVERY logistics pilot will want to fly one of those (can actually jump with T3 covops gangs, take blackops cynos to support other ships), can actually bring in a support vessel through black ops in other areas. Hell it can even do pew with the sentry drones (and a good amount of pew with the damage bonus). Ontop of it, it can use gates. (unlike carriers), and has a hell tank due to the battleship hull and the bastion module. It can be tweaked as needed.

Blackops Logistics Marauder... Spacepriest... yea I like it.

Yaay!!!!

GeeShizzle MacCloud
#153 - 2013-12-03 20:33:26 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
Deithess wrote:
Notes: Can fit covert ops cloaks and covert cynosural field generators. Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds.


if i had it my way you'd be banned for 30 day from posting in the eve-o forums for posting that suggestion. Stop sh*tting up these forums with ridiculously dumb suggestions.

Phoenix Jones wrote:
... Give the ship the covops cloak...


and you!
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#154 - 2013-12-03 20:35:17 UTC
This ship is a confusing mess IMHO.
Herpp Derpp
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#155 - 2013-12-03 20:38:23 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Someone suggested just chucking the exploration bonuses and turn this ship into a spacepriest.

Maybe this might work.

Chuck the laser optimal bonus, Give the ship the covops cloak. Give it a MJD (micro jump drive) bonus the marauders have. Increase the remote repair range to 300% percent (range of roughly 30km should do) Give it the bastion module.

There. You now have a sentry based blackops logistics marauder. Covops cloak, sentries, bastion module resistances, remote repairs, billion+ isk ship.

Thats one hell of a spacepriest. completely OP to hell and back. A gang would love one (or 20) of these with them. You get surrounded, start spider tanking the spacepriests.

Marauders in trouble, black ops drop some spacepriests.

With all of that, it MIGHT be worth a billion + isk. Call it a Mini Logistically Capable flying carrier.

EVERY logistics pilot will want to fly one of those (can actually jump with T3 covops gangs, take blackops cynos to support other ships), can actually bring in a support vessel through black ops in other areas. Hell it can even do pew with the sentry drones (and a good amount of pew with the damage bonus)

Blackops Logistics Marauder... Spacepriest... yea I like it.


+1 to spacepriest
Psihius
Perkone
Caldari State
#156 - 2013-12-03 20:38:53 UTC
I think CCP Rise is deliberatly posting ships with stats that confuses us as hell to see the reaction and what will we say about it. And he fixes it on a second pass.


CCP Rise, I see what you did there :trollface: Well played, well played :)
Night Condor
TRUE GONER Executors
TERRA REGNUM
#157 - 2013-12-03 20:38:55 UTC
Im confused Shocked

[i]"7-7 И, дитя человеческое, имея разум еще младенца, приняло её. 7-8 И, хаос и холод ворвались в галактику эту."[/i]

Gorski Car
#158 - 2013-12-03 20:43:15 UTC
CCP Rise: How do you plan on fitting anything with that powergrid?

Collect this post

Rio Bravo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#159 - 2013-12-03 20:43:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Rio Bravo
I like it as is. Fills all the holes it was supposed to and gives incentive to some neglected modules/practices.
My use of it would be an alts ship as an escort in a sanctum or DED site. Repairs, and DPS support with drones. The less clicking on my alt while on site the better. Nice passive performer for me. Will load it with lasers for the projection of an Apocalypse, Sentries, Cap transfer, and Remote armour repair. Maybe remote tracking in the mids for my mains ship beside it.

Believe, its primary role would be in a worm hole or far away place. Nothing says self sustainable like lasers and huge drone bay. Great solo ship as well as fleet.

I am not in favour of increasing the remote repair modules range. It already has a bonus to repair amount...range on top of that would be OP. Besides, train up your Heavy Repair Drones. With a base range of 48Km should be able to repair a friendly in need if you respond in time, then send back out your sentries. That should be enough range for a Battleship with repair as ONE of it's functions, but certainly not it's primary. That's what Logistics are for. Stay close to Mother if your under that much fire.

Like the scanning bonuses, and I breathed a sigh of relief when you decided against a covert ops cloak on a battleship. Cloaks are over used as it is, in my opinion. Be nice to see it in action in incursions, WH, fleets, and roaming for ghost sites.

“You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. I dig.”  - Clint Eastwood, misquote.

uyguhb
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2013-12-03 20:44:24 UTC
Why are you giving a pirate faction battleship "exploration" bonuses? nobody will ever use those bonuses because they would be stupid to fly a battleship well over a billion isk just to run some sites..

During the marauder rebalance it was made clear that you intend for pirate faction to have more dps than marauders yet this boat is givin a optimal range bonus???

please make a decision and make it good at SOMETHING.

logi amount bonus makes it as desirable as T3 logis ( those things nobody uses)

even with all those "exploration" bonuses i would choose T1 / T2 / T3 "exploration" ships over the nestor any day

i get what you are going for but a slow warping battleship that cannot warp cloaked is a pretty stupid ship to explore in.