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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#1401 - 2013-12-12 03:36:40 UTC
Galphii wrote:
The Sisters of Eve are about two things:
1. Exploration
2. Rendering aid

The exploration aspect has been well covered by the Astero & Stratios, and as many have pointed out, nobody is going to take the Nestor out into dangerous space (in its present incarnation) to run sites when the smaller, cheaper ships can do the job just as well, faster, and with less isk on the line should the pilot get caught.

The covert ops cloak has deservedly been a contentious topic, because something this big and this potentially dangerous shouldn't be that elusive, but at the same time it's got to have either a covert ops cloak or a jump drive to really be useful outside of HS.

Rendering aid hasn't really been touched aside from a minor remote rep bonus, and a BS sized vessel could be ideally suited for this, becoming the centrepoint of an aid/exploration fleet which relies on escorts more than other battleships. I can think of a few options of capturing the essence of this style;

* Gains jump drive in place of 50% laser range bonus.
* Loses drone damage and HP bonus, gains 50% range bonus to remote armour, shield and cap transfer modules per gallente battleship level.
* Gains 200,000m3 ship maintenance bay in place of probing bonus.
* Loses 1 high slot & 1 turret and gains 1 low slot.

So it'd be a light carrier, basically. I think it'd be something unique - a subcapital remote rep specialist ship which can be cyno'd into an emergency, or to get past gatecamps when doing pure exploration.

Edit: Oh, I'd also point out to the devs that pirate ships of different sizes in the same organisation don't need to keep the exact same bonuses, as evidenced by the angel cartel ships.

You're literally saying a logi BS.

The SoE actually have a darker side- and combat isn't neglected at all in their designs. The Nestor is good as is, if you ask me- a pirate BS deserves to be strong.

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1402 - 2013-12-12 04:04:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
I would still like to see a bonus on the Nestor that negates the scan res penalty of having a standard T1/T2 cloak fitted.

It's silly IMO that there isn't something.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1403 - 2013-12-12 04:31:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Galphii wrote:
The Sisters of Eve are about two things:
1. Exploration
2. Rendering aid

The exploration aspect has been well covered by the Astero & Stratios, and as many have pointed out, nobody is going to take the Nestor out into dangerous space (in its present incarnation) to run sites when the smaller, cheaper ships can do the job just as well, faster, and with less isk on the line should the pilot get caught.

The covert ops cloak has deservedly been a contentious topic, because something this big and this potentially dangerous shouldn't be that elusive, but at the same time it's got to have either a covert ops cloak or a jump drive to really be useful outside of HS.

Rendering aid hasn't really been touched aside from a minor remote rep bonus, and a BS sized vessel could be ideally suited for this, becoming the centrepoint of an aid/exploration fleet which relies on escorts more than other battleships. I can think of a few options of capturing the essence of this style;

* Gains jump drive in place of 50% laser range bonus.
* Loses drone damage and HP bonus, gains 50% range bonus to remote armour, shield and cap transfer modules per gallente battleship level.
* Gains 200,000m3 ship maintenance bay in place of probing bonus.
* Loses 1 high slot & 1 turret and gains 1 low slot.

So it'd be a light carrier, basically. I think it'd be something unique - a subcapital remote rep specialist ship which can be cyno'd into an emergency, or to get past gatecamps when doing pure exploration.

Edit: Oh, I'd also point out to the devs that pirate ships of different sizes in the same organisation don't need to keep the exact same bonuses, as evidenced by the angel cartel ships.

The only issue with creating a mini carrier like this is finding a place where you would actually want it that wouldn't be served far better by an actual carrier.

A carrier would have more RR output, damage potential, is far more resilient, has the option of triage and a larger ship maint bay. Nothing about it seems to measure up. It would seem that in low/null, anytime you could think to use this you'd be better in a carrier, in high you'd be better off with more guns or dedicated reps.

WH's, which seems a large part of the aim here considering the mass, I'm not sure about. While in a home hole again, carriers again would be superior, but potentially this could find a home plexing in adjacent holes? Seems like a very narrow niche.
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1404 - 2013-12-12 05:38:19 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:

The SoE actually have a darker side- and combat isn't neglected at all in their designs.

It's funny how easily people forget that these blueprints are given out by the non violent humanitarian Space Nuns in exchange for murdering people in astronomical numbers on their behalf.
Joker Dronemaster
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1405 - 2013-12-12 11:35:31 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Second, It's really not getting a covert cloak . This is an extremely powerful capability and it's possible that it should stay off limits for battleships completely. On top of that, if there was going to be a covert battleship, black ops is where we need to start. We will be looking at them for a balance pass eventually, they are one of the remaining classes that haven't gotten their tiericide pass yet, and we can approach this topic when that happens.


Define eventually. Are we talking a few days, weeks, months, years, or decades? I understand you have to speak in generalities because you don't want to make hard commitments, but there are other ways to do this. You could say "I would like to tackle those after we do tech 3s." or "Those will realistically be the last subcaps we touch before doing the capital balance pass.", in both cases no definite timetable was mentioned, no promises were made, but it gives the players some sort of clue as to where they fit on the agenda. Although I have a sinking feeling that the second one is likely to be closer to the truth. As someone who specializes in deep space exploration in hostile null using blops I was REALLY hoping for the ship to come with a jump drive. But if you want to wait for the Blops balance pass to have this discussion, thats fine; I'll wait. Its just as well I guess. It gives me a reason to put off training Amarr BS 5.

Although you might want to have this conversation before next years Eve Vegas. I will be attending and I must warn you that I can be extremely persistent when drinking :)

CCP Rise wrote:
Last, I'm seeing some complaints or concerns that it feels kind of all over the place. This is definitely intentional. In the posts for the Stratios and Astero I think I mentioned that one of the designs we are trying to emulate is the Gnosis. Ships capable of doing many things but being the absolute best for few. The hacking and probing bonuses are a good example of that here. We didn't choose them over something else that would make the ship a powerful fighter, we just included them to give the ship more options.


I honestly think emulating the Gnosis is a bad idea. The jack of all trades argument works well for the other two, they have a low enough price point and built in mobility to make them an attractive ship for hostile space exploration, where you have to be mostly self sufficient and able to perform multiple roles to be effective. However this ship is going to be extremely costly and has no extra built in mobility. Will nullsec residents use it? Absolutely. Will lowsec residents use it? Absolutely. But as an exploration themed ship the real goal should be to get people to go out and actually explore areas of space they are not familiar with. IE places where they are not part of the local intel channels. The high price point and lack of mobility make this ship an absolutely terrible choice for this.

Answer this. What reason do I have to use this ship in place of alternatives that are not only cheaper, but also do the job more efficiently? For the Stratios and Astero the answer is because you are likely to be too far from home to swap out ships in a timely manner and/or you need the extra mobility to get to your objective and the more efficient options are unlikely to survive the trip.

For the Nestor? I honestly can't think of anything.

And can you please explain the reasoning behind the 7/6/6 slot layout? Its got a mid slot I have no clue what to do with and one less low slot than it needs to be effective at the one thing i would realistically use this ship for. Wormhole diving. Can we please go with a 7/5/7 layout instead.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1406 - 2013-12-12 11:45:55 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:

You're literally saying a logi BS.

The SoE actually have a darker side- and combat isn't neglected at all in their designs. The Nestor is good as is, if you ask me- a pirate BS deserves to be strong.



Nestor is a turd as is.

There is literally nothing about it that I can't do with a Dominix, can't do better with a Navy Dominix/Sin Depending on what you are attmpting.

....all of which I can buy multiples at a fraction of the price.
Kira Rumatova
Night cats
#1407 - 2013-12-12 12:11:53 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi

I am very relieved to finally show you the Sisters of EVE Battleship, the Nestor. We weren't able to get it finalized before Rubicon went out, but that's alright because now it makes a nice Christmas present (just kidding it's not until (late)January).

We all agreed that keeping the covert cloak theme was not going to work for the battleship. Instead, we've kept the rest of the exploration feel from the Stratios and Astero by giving the Nestor hacking and probing bonuses, but instead of cloaking it will receive a bonus to remote armor repair amount, drawing on the Sisters of EVE themes of aid and relief. On top of that, the Nestor (as designed currently) has incredibly low mass - around half the mass of a normal Battleship. This should make it very popular in wormholes. The rest of the attribute layout follows the principles from the other Sisters of EVE ships pretty closely, as do the bonuses.

Here's the details:

NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
10% drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role bonuses:
50% bonus to remote armor repairer amount
100% bonus to remote armor repairer range
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
50% increased strength for scan probes
+10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

Slot layout: 7H, 6M, 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 700

It will be acquired in the same way that the Stratios and Astero are, via Sisters of EVE LP stores. Here are the LP offer specifics:

Nestor
1,000,000 LP
100,000,000 ISK

Discount Nestor (From the Sanctuary)
800,000 LP
80,000,000 ISK

Nestor Blueprint
600,000 LP
150,000,000 ISK

Discount Nestor Blueprint (From the Sanctuary)
400,000 LP
100,000,000 ISK

I wanted to show you guys some art, but wasn't able to get ahold of the newest version today so I'll edit later with it.

Hope this is exciting! Let me know
o/

STEALTH EDIT by Manifest brings high res concept art: http://bit.ly/1izOFm4


Very good idea! I like this one! The more new ships in EVE - the better!
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1408 - 2013-12-12 13:50:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Joker Dronemaster wrote:
Define eventually. Are we talking a few days, weeks, months, years, or decades?


Black Ops ships will be rebalanced after Marauders but before T3s. T3s will be rebalanced last before capitals.

If I remember correctly, Pirate ships will be rebalanced after T2s and before T3s.

Capitals will be rebalanced last.
Joker Dronemaster
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1409 - 2013-12-12 14:09:08 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Joker Dronemaster wrote:
Define eventually. Are we talking a few days, weeks, months, years, or decades?


Black Ops ships will be rebalanced after Marauders but before T3s. T3s will be rebalanced last before capitals.

If I remember correctly, Pirate ships will be rebalanced after T2s and before T3s.

Capitals will be rebalanced last.


Wonderful information.

Got a source to link for reference?
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1410 - 2013-12-12 14:24:22 UTC
I'm actually not willing to dig through two or three months of old threads, no.

I'm almost completely sure it was a post by CCP Ytterbium though.
Celia Therone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1411 - 2013-12-12 14:34:10 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
I'm actually not willing to dig through two or three months of old threads, no.

I'm almost completely sure it was a post by CCP Ytterbium though.

This one? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3469236#post3469236
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1412 - 2013-12-12 16:24:42 UTC
Oh man however did I miss this gem.

Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Control your space in 0.0 and you can use bastion easy with little worry. You should be able to know whats going on a couple jumps out.


I'm getting a lesson on control space from a guy that has NOTHING but blues/renters for two regions in any direction? Seriously? Let me clue you in a tad, in Fountain there is exactly zero systems that can't be reached from NPC space, either theNPC pocket smack in the middle of the region, or from low sec.

So you don't get a couple jumps, you get someone's cyno alt logged in and you better be thinking about leaving, being in bastion isn't an option.
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
1
Haha yes this is my mine. with 9 kills, I know how to rock a cruise in a frigate easy and be top damage on a BS in a frigate. You really aren't too smart, but nice try covering up your stupidity. I even proved your sentry talk was BS. NO domi kills on that board 18 pages in and the Ishtar ones only around alf even were using sentries, other were heavies and mediums. Why do you even keep posting? Trying to make yourself feel less wrong? Here ya go, I'm sowwy I proved you colpetely wrong, that I showed how much a child you are, and how easy it is to mess with you. Sowwy.


Yeah, the ENTIRE CFC using sentry domi's (we don't carry little drones at all) NC. PL, and Nulli ALL using sentry Dominixes and Ishtars as fleet doctines? I'm sorry Legio couldn't keep up with everyone else, I haven't seen any of them on the field in anything bigger than an interceptor, and you certainly aren't taking part in the big ass block war going on with all of your blues.

...no kills.

Congrats on your gank I guess. But please tell me more about your Harpy, I just happened to get 37 kills in one night in one.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1413 - 2013-12-12 16:28:29 UTC
Celia Therone wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
I'm actually not willing to dig through two or three months of old threads, no.

I'm almost completely sure it was a post by CCP Ytterbium though.

This one? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3469236#post3469236


I don't think they have a set schedule.

There are still recons, hictors, pirate ships, blops, cap industrials, T3s caps and super caps. We can safely assume that T3s won't happen until the slog through the rest of the T2 cruisers, and possibly pirate boats.

BLOPs is the one I'm actually waiting for, hopefully they don't make quiet the hash out of it marauders were.
Celia Therone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1414 - 2013-12-12 16:31:09 UTC
It would be interesting to see an analysis of the Nestor for its intended roles. My EFT fu is weak though...

For example in level 4 usage it seems as though:
A blaster fit navy dominix is superior at very short range.
A pulse fit navy dominix (I want to lol) will be roughly the same to the edge of pulse + 2x tracking computer with optimal range. It looks like you're better off fitting 3 DDA 2's rather than some combination of DDA and faction heat sinks even if you rig a burst aerator ii and rock a lancer 1006 and surgical strike 906..

So I'm guessing that somewhere around 59km (with scorch) the Nestor's optimal bonus lets it get more applied dps than the navy dominix as the latter moves into falloff. However at 49km your dual fed navy omnidir garde iis (most of your dps) have already gone into falloff. So presumably fairly shortly after that the Nestor's dps is going to be much the same as a regular sentry dominix with some rails as it rocks 3 fed navy omnis and it's non stacking drone optimal bonus? I guess the nestor could use its innate optimal bonus to switch an optimal script for a tracking script and get slightly better applied dps?

Or it could pulse/scorch snipe at 85km with bouncers maybe? Its doing almost 1000dps at that range and it can range tank which is handy because it doesn't really have the power grid or cap to run a tank and its guns.

Thinking about it more, though, a bouncer wielding 425mm rail navy dominix is going to be doing quite similar dps at that range, albeit with worse tracking. Oh, but it doesn't have high slots for drone link augmentors so actually it can't.

A regular dominix with 4x 425 rails and gardes only does about 30dps less although the rails will be in falloff and have worse tracking, 85km will see the gardes hitting pretty solidly.

I don't know,that seems like a pretty small window to operate in... I drone snipe now when I want a cheap boat that wont be suicide ganked. If I was willing to fly a blinged boat, and pay more attention, then surely I can do better?

--

Other use cases that I can think of:
1) It's got a fair brick tank so brick tank it and rep stuff? A carrier is sturdier, cheaper, reps more, does more dps and jumps which shrinks the Nestor's usefulness quite a lot. It might be useful in station games, especially in high sec. Be still my beating heart. Maybe repping on a gate so it can de-aggro and jump through?

2) A low mass, sturdy repper in wormholes. Would it just get dread blapped?

3) Maybe a sturdier logi that can apply dps in high sec incursions? (Is making high sec incursions easier, faser and more lucrative a direction to pursue?)

4) Bait. Everyone is going to want to kill these things. After insurance they're probably more painful to lose than dreads.
Disciple Cax
Ethereal Morality
The Initiative.
#1415 - 2013-12-12 17:09:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Disciple Cax
I have an idea for being able to use the Nestor as a RR boat without making it OP, but still offering its utility in an interesting way. This idea will require some tweaking so please don't take it as a final product, but I feel that the concept is worth looking into.

NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
10% drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role bonuses:
250% bonus to logistic drone repair amount
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range

Slot layout: 7H, 6M, 6L; 6 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 500

Fuel Bay Capacity: 1250m3
Corporate Hangar Capacity: 1000m3

Can jump to Cynosural and Covert Cynosural beacons
Jump Range: 3.5 ly
Can fit Logistical Drone Link Augmentor


Logistical Drone Link Augmentor

500% bonus to Shield Maintenance Bots optimal range and 250% bonus to Armor Maintenance Bots optimal range
100% decrease to drone speed

Can only be fit by Sisters of Eve ships

CPU: 100
PG: 1

-- Med Slot

Activation Cost: 250



This would effectively give it the ability to choose between combat or logistic drones. Almost 1000 dps with sentries, and about 350 dps with just its pulses. This would also make its logistics drone almost like logistics sentries with a 30km range. An ability unique to this ship as only SOE ships can fit the mod. Please don't make the argument that the module is too limited in number of ships as it can be applied to 3 ships. There are many mods in this game that can only be fit on 4 ships.

I took the analyzing and probing bonuses off because any ship that lights you a cyno to come in is very likely to have the bonuses already. You don't need them in combat, so they seemed a little redundant.

The rep is ~3 unbonused large RR. It has a corporate hangar to serve as a type of exploration command ship. I have heard arguments that too large of a bay would make other ships irrelevant, but the bay is only large enough to carry salvage and backup mods. It requires a second player to travel, so it is fairly balanced in its utility/effort ratio. The next step up in transportation is covert bridging a covert hauler which takes 1 more account for about 6 times the carrying capacity.

It definitely shouldn't have a ship maintanence array as that would allow too much mobile refitting in combat. With a carrier you are limited to sitting ontop of it, but a BS can move too much.

The numbers I used are definitely debatable and I'm sure CCP would bring them in line if they like the idea, but what do yall think about the concept? Logistical sentry drones that are unique to this ship, and covert jump capable exploration command ship. Capable of aiding or shooting, but not OP at both at the same time

**Edit**

I put the repair amount bonus on the ship so that you could use the module for the cruiser and frigate, but give them a reasonable bonus to repair amount for their size, or none if seen fit. It would still allow them to provide rep or dps.
Atomic Option
NO Tax FAT Stacks
#1416 - 2013-12-12 17:23:05 UTC
As a wormhole resident, this battleship looks interesting primarily for the RR amount bonus. If it stays as is, PVE RR BS gangs may use it over guardians / domi space priests because you can potentially get the same rep amounts with fewer ships. The armor bonus+RR bonus may make for a powerful combination too.

The ~50% normal BS mass is interesting, but not all that important in higher class wormholes where capital movement is that primary logistics problem. (still waiting for RR to be renamed to something more sensical than "logistics" btw Roll)

The concept art reminds me of this thing [NSFW], but I guess that's still in lore-style for the Sisters. P


Reading this thread was... an ordeal. I can't think of a constructive way to phrase advice to certain people who post tons of clutter, so I'll just say: Mad props CCP Rise if you got to this point without a severe migraine.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1417 - 2013-12-12 17:59:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Celia Therone wrote:

I don't know,that seems like a pretty small window to operate in... I drone snipe now when I want a cheap boat that wont be suicide ganked. If I was willing to fly a blinged boat, and pay more attention, then surely I can do better?


Yeah its called a Rattlesnake, and it lays out 900DPS wherever you need it to.

--
Celia Therone wrote:

Other use cases that I can think of:
1) It's got a fair brick tank so brick tank it and rep stuff? A carrier is sturdier, cheaper, reps more, does more dps and jumps which shrinks the Nestor's usefulness quite a lot. It might be useful in station games, especially in high sec. Be still my beating heart. Maybe repping on a gate so it can de-aggro and jump through?

2) A low mass, sturdy repper in wormholes. Would it just get dread blapped?

3) Maybe a sturdier logi that can apply dps in high sec incursions? (Is making high sec incursions easier, faser and more lucrative a direction to pursue?)

4) Bait. Everyone is going to want to kill these things. After insurance they're probably more painful to lose than dreads.


1) It'll brick like an abbadon, with an extra 12% base armor buffer, so you are looking at a 200-245k eHP range.....now here is the the thing a double plated, triple trimarked aligns in 14.35 seconds......Nestor has an 13.83 align without any of that (I know skills, and that is a high number).....base nav speeds are identical
2) It wouldn't stand up to a blap dread any better than any other battleship, that is to say it wouldn't.
3) If anyone actually uses it, It would cap itself out with a 4 rep two transfer set up AND you have a scan res that is worse than a vannilla Dominix.....so viva la Sebo? At that point just guardian.
3) Without insurance they will be right around dread price hull for hull unless the SOE LP market totally craters, you are looking at easily a 1.5 billion isk BLUEPRINT, that isn't the hull.

If you are curious this is an OLD mission Domi that I had saved in my fitter....the only thing I changed was adding DDAs in place of the TEs that used to live in the lows...oh yeah and MJD over afterburner. Its gankable...kinda but far from overly pimped.

[Dominix Navy Issue, Hippo]

Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Power Diagnostic System II

Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Caldari Navy Thermic Dissipation Field
Caldari Navy Kinetic Deflection Field
Caldari Navy Kinetic Deflection Field
Large Micro Jump Drive
Sensor Booster II

425mm Railgun II, Spike L
425mm Railgun II, Spike L
425mm Railgun II, Spike L
425mm Railgun II, Spike L
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Warden II x5
Ogre II x5
Garde II x5
....light drones to taste

Play with that for a minute.
Roy Alleyne
Dark Knowledge.
#1418 - 2013-12-13 01:24:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Roy Alleyne
Disciple Cax wrote:


Logistical Drone Link Augmentor

500% bonus to Shield Maintenance Bots optimal range and 250% bonus to Armor Maintenance Bots optimal range
100% decrease to drone speed

Can only be fit by Sisters of Eve ships

CPU: 100
PG: 1

-- Med Slot

Activation Cost: 250



This would effectively give it the ability to choose between combat or logistic drones. Almost 1000 dps with sentries, and about 350 dps with just its pulses. This would also make its logistics drone almost like logistics sentries with a 30km range. An ability unique to this ship as only SOE ships can fit the mod. Please don't make the argument that the module is too limited in number of ships as it can be applied to 3 ships. There are many mods in this game that can only be fit on 4 ships.

I took the analyzing and probing bonuses off because any ship that lights you a cyno to come in is very likely to have the bonuses already. You don't need them in combat, so they seemed a little redundant.

The rep is ~3 unbonused large RR. It has a corporate hangar to serve as a type of exploration command ship. I have heard arguments that too large of a bay would make other ships irrelevant, but the bay is only large enough to carry salvage and backup mods. It requires a second player to travel, so it is fairly balanced in its utility/effort ratio. The next step up in transportation is covert bridging a covert hauler which takes 1 more account for about 6 times the carrying capacity.

It definitely shouldn't have a ship maintanence array as that would allow too much mobile refitting in combat. With a carrier you are limited to sitting ontop of it, but a BS can move too much.

The numbers I used are definitely debatable and I'm sure CCP would bring them in line if they like the idea, but what do yall think about the concept? Logistical sentry drones that are unique to this ship, and covert jump capable exploration command ship. Capable of aiding or shooting, but not OP at both at the same time

**Edit**

I put the repair amount bonus on the ship so that you could use the module for the cruiser and frigate, but give them a reasonable bonus to repair amount for their size, or none if seen fit. It would still allow them to provide rep or dps.


Logistic sentry drones... Now that idea is certainly unique. Having the ability linked to a module is also fairly interesting as it would allow the Stratios and Astero to also use it while fit for combat and/or exploration. Logi drone bonuses have been proposed before but not something as radical as this. Applying bonuses to both combat and logistics drones however, would basically allow for the equivalent of refitting from bonused turrets to RR without a fitting service available. Drone ships have always had this ability to a lesser extent, a pair of Stratios could fit a buffer tank and use each others logi drones for reps for example, but in that case the drones would move with the ships, even if the pair moved out of drone control range of each other. With this modual active however they become even more restrictive than unbonused reppers as they can't move at all, even a BS could out distance these in relatively little time, and they don't offer enough repping power to justify keeping your fleet in a 30km bubble when you could just as easily deploy sentries and contribute that extra dps to much greater ranges.

P.S. Just because you said it I'll make the argument about limiting the new module to 3 ships. The modules that are already limited by ship class are there for a reason. For example, what would a Marader do with a covert jump portal generator, or a dread fitted with triage? Those special modules are designed around very specialized ships for either amplifying their abilities or performing a function the ship normally couldn't. Having one specifically for a pirate faction doesn't fit with their role as multipurpose exploration ships.

EDIT: having a fleet hanger, no matter the size, is pointless without a fitting service. The transfer of modules and loot between ships is easy to do, all a fleet hanger would accomplish is increasing the amount of stuff you can carry and needlessly increasing the ship's complexity.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1419 - 2013-12-13 05:32:23 UTC
Celia Therone wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
I'm actually not willing to dig through two or three months of old threads, no.

I'm almost completely sure it was a post by CCP Ytterbium though.

This one? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3469236#post3469236


That's not actually the one I was thinking of, but it's close. One of the CCPs actually laid out a specific high-level timeline but I don't recall who or what it was.
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#1420 - 2013-12-13 05:32:36 UTC
After all of the discussion so far, and CCP Rise's posts and tweaks - meh.

Basic design is still uninspired, vanilla, 'can be done better by a Dominix' blah.

If you're so determined that no battleship hull gets considered for a Cov Ops cloak prior to the Black Ops pass, THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THE BLACK OPS PASS FIRST!!!

Half-baked bulls**t designs such as what you have here (and, in all honesty, those Tier 3 BC's, which killed half of the HAC's, that you STILL haven't properly rebalanced!) need to be pulled back to your development department, and re-thought.

You seem to have a goal. I'm willing to give you that much. Your approach to reaching it, however, is flawed in the extreme.

Go back, and re-think from the beginning. The reassessment of Roden Shipyards' design philosophy(ies) is the proper place to start. Develop a similar distinction for ALL of the T2 ship design bureaus, ones that more clearly identify a corporate AND racial identy. Then, re-think the design goals of the pirate factions in a slightly more clearly defined manner as they relate to their respective goals and hisec opponents, with secondary consideration given to their rival pirates.

THAT will allow you to more clearly establish proper design goals for something such as this, which is NOT a hisec faction, but is also NOT a true pirate faction.

That you want an armor tanking, laser drone boat is, in itself, not a bad idea. I'm not opposed to the creation of an exploration battleship. I started dropping probes a very long time ago, and still enjoy it. Even a logistics battleship is a laudable concept.

But have a better, more clearly focused idea of the design philosophy the ship's creators would have been adhering to from the beginning of their work. There's nothing wrong with the Dominix. But if that's what SoE's design engineers wanted, THAT'S WHAT THEY'D HAVE BUILT!

Ironically, what you've done here is show everyone the proper tool to use in the toughest of the Ghost sites - an Exploration Domi. True, it won't have quite the scanning or hacking strength this one will, but it'll do them ALMOST as well, and be fully insurable in the bargain.

Think about that. Consider delaying the release of this ship until after the Black Ops pass. We don't NEED a new faction battleship just so we can have a new shiny to spin in our hangars. Fumbling your way through something like this does not inspire confidence, and you give every indication that's what you're doing. It looks like you're simply putting something out just so you can say that you're giving us new shiny stuff.

Never a good idea.