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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#941 - 2013-12-05 22:39:09 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
marVLs wrote:
So in next few hours Rise wil give us some silly arguments about not leting go scaning/data bonuses... great, rebalancing ships with adding another broken, the same and useless hull.


I don't really understand the argument for having getting rid of these. If they are gone, they wouldn't be replaced with something else. They are there because it keeps theme with the other two Sisters ships, and it will likely get used by at least some people for the occasional ghost site or finding sites or for future content that uses hacking.

Wow.
Just wow.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#942 - 2013-12-05 22:47:12 UTC
Harrigan VonStudly wrote:
Unless I missed something the SOE ships were released with Rubicon along with Ghost sites. I read some bit of news somewhere that Ghost sites were ripping the hell out of those attempting them. Now comes a long overdue range bonused RRBS. This ship may have uses most of ya'll aren't realizing.

Then they're clueless, because they're extremely easy to tank for.

Battleships are also extremely poor as logistics platforms and no bonus you give them is going to change that. This is just dumb.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Roy Alleyne
Dark Knowledge.
#943 - 2013-12-05 22:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Roy Alleyne
uyguhb wrote:
This ship needs a jumpdrive or all you have created is the most expensive complex running ship in the game.

I want to fight and die in pvp with these! not shoot little red crosses till my eyes bleed and i dont play eve for 2 weeks.


I agree, anything to get some excitement out of these ships. Either a covert jump drive, cloak movement, or really anything to convince us to take them into hostile territory. At this point I really don't care what it is as long as it turns the ship from a garenteed loss mail into something that has half a chance to outmaneuver an enemy.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#944 - 2013-12-05 22:52:23 UTC
No, clearly remote repair is what everyone always wanted in a battleship.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#945 - 2013-12-05 22:56:09 UTC
i didnt read the answers before me, so if i repeat some stuff already mentioned dont hold it against me Blink


  1. Role Boni, either give the reps a range boni (2 times good 3 times better) or give rep drones instead a speed and rep amount boni
  2. Low Mass interesting, might be a problem with bumpin ships but pls let it stay
  3. if it is to be fitted with lasers and active armor it should get a better cap recharge
  4. give probes a scan boni to stay in line with soe


Else looks good, the design needs abit to get used too, and rly 600k lp that means i have todo alot more missions Ugh
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#946 - 2013-12-05 22:56:43 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I don't really understand the argument for having getting rid of these. If they are gone, they wouldn't be replaced with something else. They are there because it keeps theme with the other two Sisters ships, and it will likely get used by at least some people for the occasional ghost site or finding sites or for future content that uses hacking.


I like the +15 analyzer bonus idea but +10 is fine too since it's not there in place of some other bonus.

If this ship is really supposed to be used for exploration, it needs some kind of bonus to help it travel. Warp strength or bubble immunity bonuses wouldn't help it much at all. Cloak velocity bonuses would at least give it a means to travel in relative safety (cloak, align, warp, laugh at local, lose ship to gang at next gate).

The problem with giving it all the Black Ops bonuses is that it makes all the existing Black Ops ships not-so specialized. It's faction, not t2, so it can't/shouldn't do everything that a more specialized t2 ship can do.

I say let it ride covert cyno bridges and/or give it a jump drive that can target covert cynos; but don't give it the ability to use a portal generator or any other bonuses to cloaks (targeting/reactivation delays) so it doesn't eliminate the need/use of actual Black Ops ships entirely, especially not if they're less than half the price. (Hear that folks? Blops ships are "cheap").
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#947 - 2013-12-05 23:13:14 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
No, clearly remote repair is what everyone always wanted in a battleship.


as much as i immediately thought rr bs's were on the way back with the initial stats, if the stats hadnt suggested rr bs style play i doubt anyone would have given it much thought. it was clearly a direction CCP wanted to probe their player base about.

however id prefer to see CCP either make logi drones work better overall or make the Nestor able to field them as a fast and effective form of logistics (without obviously eclipsing dedicated logi) I do believe it can work with correct balancing.
Roy Alleyne
Dark Knowledge.
#948 - 2013-12-05 23:15:53 UTC
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
I don't really understand the argument for having getting rid of these. If they are gone, they wouldn't be replaced with something else. They are there because it keeps theme with the other two Sisters ships, and it will likely get used by at least some people for the occasional ghost site or finding sites or for future content that uses hacking.


I like the +15 analyzer bonus idea but +10 is fine too since it's not there in place of some other bonus.

If this ship is really supposed to be used for exploration, it needs some kind of bonus to help it travel. Warp strength or bubble immunity bonuses wouldn't help it much at all. Cloak velocity bonuses would at least give it a means to travel in relative safety (cloak, align, warp, laugh at local, lose ship to gang at next gate).

The problem with giving it all the Black Ops bonuses is that it makes all the existing Black Ops ships not-so specialized. It's faction, not t2, so it can't/shouldn't do everything that a more specialized t2 ship can do.

I say let it ride covert cyno bridges and/or give it a jump drive that can target covert cynos; but don't give it the ability to use a portal generator or any other bonuses to cloaks (targeting/reactivation delays) so it doesn't eliminate the need/use of actual Black Ops ships entirely, especially not if they're less than half the price. (Hear that folks? Blops ships are "cheap").


Exactly, All we ask for is mobility to use the ships, and it is the only rational thing that was asked for other than the RR range increase in this whole thread.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#949 - 2013-12-05 23:21:01 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
No, clearly remote repair is what everyone always wanted in a battleship.


tech I logi frig? check

tech i and II logi crusier? check

pirate faction logi batteship? check

carrier? check

super carrier? check

seems logical to me.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#950 - 2013-12-05 23:40:45 UTC
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
The problem with giving it all the Black Ops bonuses is that it makes all the existing Black Ops ships not-so specialized. It's faction, not t2, so it can't/shouldn't do everything that a more specialized t2 ship can do.


SOE ships already do stuff that other pirate ships can't: mainly exploration and covert ops cloaking. A relatively simple balance to allow the Nestor to keep the covert/blackops theme without displacing existing ships in those classes is to take away some of the more powerful bonuses: keep the RR, switch drone damage for drone speed (for heavy logistics drones), take away the laser bonuses. Focus on one or two key roles in addition to the BLOPS function and SOE native exploration/hacking bonuses. The Nestor won't even need the cloaked speed bonus to do its job.

An RR BLOPS will allow people already using Widows, Sins, Panthers and Redeemers to be a little braver about using them in combat rather than exclusively using them as roaming jump bridges.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#951 - 2013-12-05 23:51:30 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
The problem with giving it all the Black Ops bonuses is that it makes all the existing Black Ops ships not-so specialized. It's faction, not t2, so it can't/shouldn't do everything that a more specialized t2 ship can do.


SOE ships already do stuff that other pirate ships can't: mainly exploration and covert ops cloaking.


The question isn't can they do what other pirates ships can't, it's should they get all the bonuses BLOPS get and it seems like we agree that no, they shouldn't. I'm fine with the Nestor participating in BLOPS gangs. I'm not fine with them totally eclipsing the need for BLOPS at all. Let them jump, but don't let them bridge.
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#952 - 2013-12-05 23:54:16 UTC
Drop large rep bonus, and give it a 500% remote repair bonus to logistics drones. Each Heavy Armor drone would then repair a touch more than a single Large armor repper II, giving the ship effectively five T2 large remote reps, along with some modest damage from its lasers and decent cap if it's not using its own cap for remote reps. That will encourage unique tactics, as you can't really use the drone DPS bonus and the remote rep bonus simultaneously. The reps are delayed, as the drones take a while to fly between targets.

Would definitely be a unique role: a heavily drone-reliant space priest :)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#953 - 2013-12-05 23:58:12 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
The problem with giving it all the Black Ops bonuses is that it makes all the existing Black Ops ships not-so specialized. It's faction, not t2, so it can't/shouldn't do everything that a more specialized t2 ship can do.


SOE ships already do stuff that other pirate ships can't: mainly exploration and covert ops cloaking. A relatively simple balance to allow the Nestor to keep the covert/blackops theme without displacing existing ships in those classes is to take away some of the more powerful bonuses: keep the RR, switch drone damage for drone speed (for heavy logistics drones), take away the laser bonuses. Focus on one or two key roles in addition to the BLOPS function and SOE native exploration/hacking bonuses. The Nestor won't even need the cloaked speed bonus to do its job.

An RR BLOPS will allow people already using Widows, Sins, Panthers and Redeemers to be a little braver about using them in combat rather than exclusively using them as roaming jump bridges.

That seems to pigeonhole it into a B-ops logi, removing the exploration aspects of the ship in any situation where a BS would be desirable. Sure it can still scan, but profession sites would be better with the GTFO and cov ops of either of the other 2 and drone DPS would be lower that the stratios with the damage bonus gone and pretty anemic over all making it a poor choice for combat sites.

I can only see this being useful in the role you describe, and doubt that it would see much use as a result. Adding a likely billion+ hull to the mix isn't something I anticipate would make b-ops BS gangs want to engage more often.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#954 - 2013-12-06 00:08:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
I'm most definitely underwhelmed by the ship's stats, it would of course be ******** to expect a covert ops BS but the RR bonus is silly, or rather it's silly in combination with data/relic bonuses. The whole theme of the SOE ships has been "long deployment deep in hostile territory". Where is this ship going to hide, how can it avoid trouble?The stats and bonuses are a silly mess of compromises and half arsed changes.

How about this; change the Astero to allow for a SOE covert cyno (that way the ship actually has a use) that only the Nestor can lock on to and give this Nestor a jump drive without bridging or being able to lock on to non-SOE cyno. NOW it can operate in hostile territory, give it a bonus to MJD and lower its sensor strength to kinda shoehorn it away from hotdrop lulz.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#955 - 2013-12-06 00:12:34 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
MeBiatch wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
No, clearly remote repair is what everyone always wanted in a battleship.


tech I logi frig? check

tech i and II logi crusier? check

pirate faction logi batteship? check

carrier? check

super carrier? check

seems logical to me.

Supercarriers have RR bonuses but that isn't, by far, their primary role.
If you're trying to make a sarcastic point about "which of these doesn't belong" then yeah, I would agree.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#956 - 2013-12-06 00:36:12 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Supercarriers have RR bonuses but that isn't, by far, their primary role.
If you're trying to make a sarcastic point about "which of these doesn't belong" then yeah, I would agree.


Once upon a time, supercarriers had triage
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#957 - 2013-12-06 00:36:25 UTC
One thing to note is that black ops ships haven't been balanced yet. People keep saying dont give it this or that because it shouldn't eclipse or be better than the current T2 battleships, but its entirely possible that when CCP balances them they get a buff that makes the Nester look weak (or at least not a good). I'm not sure what the balance plans for them are, just noting they likely won't be the same in a few months.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#958 - 2013-12-06 00:44:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
No, clearly remote repair is what everyone always wanted in a battleship.



Not really but a focused logistics battleship would make a really interesting junction between Guardian and Triage Carrier.

This isn't it though, the slot layout is there the bonuses are a mess.

baltec1 wrote:
I would like to explore more around mobility and its low mass.


Yes, but as long as it is stuck with Rubicon BS mobility.....ugh
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#959 - 2013-12-06 00:47:02 UTC
BeanBagKing wrote:
One thing to note is that black ops ships haven't been balanced yet. People keep saying dont give it this or that because it shouldn't eclipse or be better than the current T2 battleships, but its entirely possible that when CCP balances them they get a buff that makes the Nester look weak (or at least not a good). I'm not sure what the balance plans for them are, just noting they likely won't be the same in a few months.


True, but it's reasonable to assume that they won't change that drastically from their current incarnation. Maybe they're already planning to rebalance BLOPS for Rubicon 1.1 but until they make an announcement stating as much...
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#960 - 2013-12-06 00:55:16 UTC
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
BeanBagKing wrote:
One thing to note is that black ops ships haven't been balanced yet. People keep saying dont give it this or that because it shouldn't eclipse or be better than the current T2 battleships, but its entirely possible that when CCP balances them they get a buff that makes the Nester look weak (or at least not a good). I'm not sure what the balance plans for them are, just noting they likely won't be the same in a few months.


True, but it's reasonable to assume that they won't change that drastically from their current incarnation. Maybe they're already planning to rebalance BLOPS for Rubicon 1.1 but until they make an announcement stating as much...



Then it shall remain overpriced and crappy.