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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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sabastyian
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#561 - 2013-12-04 19:32:57 UTC
Rroff wrote:
sabastyian wrote:
Don't give this ship a ship maintenance bay or a fleet hangar as suggested unless you intend on removing the guns ( people want a mini-carrier and carriers cant use guns. ) Give it a 400% Energy Transfer Array and Remote Armor Repair system range bonus ( that's less then a guardian and more then a logi frig ) allowing it to rep to around 33km and be able to give and receive capacitor. Maybe give it a 55% reduction in Energy Transfer Array costs and Remote Armor Repair Systems ( requires more cap then a guardian. ) Give it a jump drive similar to Black ops ( there is currently no real covert ops logistics ships in eve making black ops fleets kind of a "gank it or die" scenario. ) Amarr Battleship: 4% resistances per level. gallente Battleship 10% drone damage and hitpoints per level. The cloak bonuses black ops receive could also be implemented to keep it in line with its counterparts. Remove the gun bonus entirely. Those stats give you a logistics ship that tanks less then a T3, costs more then a Triage carrier, but allows it ( when in pairs ) to effectively be a black ops logistics boat while adding a small amount of damage.
The 50% amount bonus could be kept, but if it is the high slots should be 6, med slots should be 4, and low slots should be 7 as most armor battleships in eve have 7-8 low slots. With 6 high slots and 1 cloak, you would have 2 cap transfers and 3 50% bonused reps, giving it more repping power then a guardian at 4.5 reps.


I'd rather see it getting a moderate bonus (I'd say closer to 200-300% than 400%) to armor RR and energy xfer range than a 50% amount bonus as that amount bonus + its resists makes for some outlandish spider tanking (not that I'm against that as such but it would be a little bit game breaking). Also fits in with the nature of the other bonuses which are more range based.

400% range is still only 30km range for the reps, which is frigate logi range
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#562 - 2013-12-04 19:34:30 UTC
I think it should be adjusted to look like this http://i.imgur.com/tTJXrN8.jpg or it be like this http://www.deviantart.com/morelikethis/58132818?view_mode=2#/art/SOE-Urania-178744191?_sid=53bdca9f with a few adjustments to it.

C Klinchock
Violence is the Answer
#563 - 2013-12-04 19:34:53 UTC
This ship is nothing but a glorified WH rolling BS. OH WAIT!!! Its mass is reduced it'll suck at that too. Give it a drone tracking bonus on top of the RR and it'll be worth the HUGE amount of isk...
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#564 - 2013-12-04 19:38:35 UTC
Ranamar wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:


Oh I get it... You're Intentionally being an idiot.



What exactly makes you think these 1 bil battleships are unaffordable for pvp when we are throwing away 4.5 bil dreadnoughts and blobbing 100 billion isk titans?


As you discovered with techfleet, sourcing faction bs hulls can be difficult.


TBH, I think that's his point, actually. The problem with techfleet wasn't really that the CFC couldn't afford them. It was that it literally couldn't replace them. Incidentally, the nullsec SoE station is deep in CFC space. :tinfoil:

Actually, the biggest pricing and sourcing problem I can see with these, in a general sense, is that, unlike the regular pirate factions, there aren't SoE combat exploration sites. The price of pirate battleship hulls is actually massively depressed by these sites, since they drop pirate ship BPCs: you can get upwards of 2k ISK/LP out of pirate frigate and cruiser BPCs, but the battleship ones tend to be closer to 1k ISK/LP in price. The Nestor isn't going to have that downward pressure being exerted on it, so its price is actually going to be linked to the prices of the smaller hulls.



Dead on, and like I said I pulling between 3 and 3.5lL isk per LP for srtrat BPCs, if the price of Nestor drops below that rate, I won't bother buying it......even at 2k/lp you are looking at a 1.2 bil BPC, that isn't a hull, that is the blueprint. (at high sec exchange, Sancturay doesnt contribute enough to the overall numbers to matter I would wager)

So yes, they are going to be ...pricey, don't look at the other pirate ships, their sources aren't analogous, to my knowledge there are now SOE 8/10 sites out there.
Atkins Friendly
Spaceship Renegades
Casually Hardcore
#565 - 2013-12-04 19:42:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Atkins Friendly
I fear this thing is going to be so cap hungry in battles.

In the heat of battle, when you're running Energy Turrets, a tank AND remote reps, only having 6200 cap with a 1044 recharge is terrible. You'll last less than 2 minutes unless you flood your mids with cap rechargers or boosters. If you do boosters, you are wasting your cargo hold for batteries instead of what it's suppose to be for; loot.

I'd much rather see a 10-15% decrease in capacitor need for energy turrets than the Optimal range.. especially since you'll be fitting large turrets that have a decent range already.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#566 - 2013-12-04 19:43:07 UTC
CCP Manifest wrote:
I stealth edited the high res concept art to the OP.
You can find it here: http://bit.ly/1izOFm4


Not that I am against the idea rise. Just does not make sense.

The picture linked clearly shows a shuttle leaving a sma and there is a medical bay highlighted.

Personally this ship should be an escort carrier... I am thinking like a mini mom of old but uses drone instead of fighters

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Kesi Raae
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#567 - 2013-12-04 19:45:58 UTC
Has any consideration been given to increasing the range of the remote repair modules themselves and reducing the logistics bonuses for them to compensate?

Would hopefully make RR doctrines more viable across the board.
Rammix
TheMurk
#568 - 2013-12-04 19:46:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Of course price is a factor in balance. Don't be so ignorant.


When has price ever stopped us from blobbing the ever living hell out of something overpowered?

If price was no obstacle from massing titan fleets why would it be an issue on a billion isk BS hull?

Eve is not only powerblock blobs.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#569 - 2013-12-04 19:47:34 UTC
You don't think 6 meds will give this ship good enough drone tracking? Even with 5 meds you could get drone tracking AND range up pretty damn good.

The issue isn't that, the issue is that this Is doesn't need a repair bonus. It be better of will a bonuse like blackops have for cloak speed and being able to jump through convert cynos and regular cynos.

I do think it be better with either 7H, 5M, 7L OR 6H, 6M, 7L but I doubt CCP cares much what I think
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#570 - 2013-12-04 19:48:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Atkins Friendly wrote:
I fear this thing is going to be so cap hungry in battles.

In the heat of battle, when you're running Energy Turrets, a tank AND remote reps, only having 6200 cap with a 1044 recharge is terrible. You'll last less than 2 minutes unless you flood your mids with cap rechargers or boosters. If you do boosters, you are wasting your cargo hold for batteries instead of what it's suppose to be for; loot.

I'd much rather see a 10-15% decrease in capacity need for energy turrets than the Optimal range.. especially since you'll be fitting large turrets that have a decent range already.


No no no you'll need half of the midsfor SeBo's and another for a prop mod, pretty much EVERY low for tank.....and 7 high slots to deal with.

.....did you notice? Less CPU than a rattler.....yeah.
Rammix
TheMurk
#571 - 2013-12-04 19:49:09 UTC
Seems they have nothing else to do.
I can list up to 100 things that need dev time, they only need to ask. Where is damn WIS by the way?

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#572 - 2013-12-04 19:51:35 UTC
Grenn Putubi wrote:
I don't have any experience with Ghost Sites, but is it even possible to survive the explosion?


With a decent tank its easy as pie to survive the can explosion, i dont actually think its possible to be hit by multiple explosions, earlier i was boating between cans when the site popped and didn't even get hit by either can
Meiyang Lee
Game Instrument Applications
#573 - 2013-12-04 19:55:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Meiyang Lee
Has anyone done the math on how fast this thing will be with an MWD??
At half the mass of a normal BS it should be rather quick with prop mods..

Because that combo of low mass and high agility screams nano-boat to me. Pirate
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#574 - 2013-12-04 19:57:43 UTC
sabastyian wrote:

400% range is still only 30km range for the reps, which is frigate logi range


Yeah I don't think it should have massive range but something a bit more useable than ~7-8km, my off the wall figures do give a bit lower range though than I was intending - around 30km sounds better.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#575 - 2013-12-04 20:04:08 UTC
Rroff wrote:
sabastyian wrote:

400% range is still only 30km range for the reps, which is frigate logi range


Yeah I don't think it should have massive range but something a bit more useable than ~7-8km, my off the wall figures do give a bit lower range though than I was intending - around 30km sounds better.


So again, why would I chose this over a Guardian or Onerios ....ever the cruisers are faster, more survival, faster in warp with 71km ranges .

oh yeah and they can keep up with the fleet without capping out.

for 200mil not 2 billion.
Atkins Friendly
Spaceship Renegades
Casually Hardcore
#576 - 2013-12-04 20:05:41 UTC
Rroff wrote:
sabastyian wrote:

400% range is still only 30km range for the reps, which is frigate logi range


Yeah I don't think it should have massive range but something a bit more useable than ~7-8km, my off the wall figures do give a bit lower range though than I was intending - around 30km sounds better.



I dont think range is needed that much in a BS.. the Logi cruiser and frigs need the range because they have no offense and need the orbital speed to defend themselves.

This BS gets a bonus for defense so it can be close to the mob, thus not needing a remote rep range bonus
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#577 - 2013-12-04 20:07:32 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
It's not getting a jump drive.
It's not getting a covert cloak.
It's not getting bubble immunity.
It's not getting covert jump portal.
It's not getting covert cyno.
It's not getting bastion capability.

Please stop asking for these things. None of these are workable ideas.
Please also stop asking for:

A logistics battleship. Logistics battleships are just a terrible idea for several reasons, mainly the fact that they're slow, would have to have short range to avoid trampling on actual specialized logistics ships, and lock too slowly to be of actual use in anything more than a very small engagement.

An exploration battleship. There's literally no reason why you should ever try exploring in a battleship, no matter what its bonuses may be. It's too slow both in and out of warp to be effective at this role at all.

I'll add that these latter two are also exactly why the original proposal completely sucks, especially considering not enough of a bonus is given to either to make it useful for these roles at all.

The ship isn't a "jack of all trades, master of none." It's a "useful for nothing, shiny new ship to spin in our hangars".

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#578 - 2013-12-04 20:10:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Rroff wrote:
sabastyian wrote:

400% range is still only 30km range for the reps, which is frigate logi range


Yeah I don't think it should have massive range but something a bit more useable than ~7-8km, my off the wall figures do give a bit lower range though than I was intending - around 30km sounds better.



between 20 to 30km would work.

Technically (least currently), fit with full reppers, it should equal the repping power of 2 guardians (assuming 4 large reppers on guardian and 6 on the Nestor, with the 50% bonus, should be at 2 guardians.

Oh and screaming "It WONT GET IT", without actually saying why does not make the wish not come true :-)

Gotta love Goons :-P

Yaay!!!!
Ellesd
Abyssal Nanofibre Internal Structure
People Assaulting People in Space.
#579 - 2013-12-04 20:15:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ellesd
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Two step wrote:
How about even a small range bonus. RR range unbonused is really tiny, a fixed 100% range bonus taking it up to 16.8km would make it a lot more usable


Or, you know, fix the space-priest modules so that they have a sensible base range and you don't have to have comically large hull bonuses on specialist ships to make them useful.


Or, you know, just set your orbit range and anchor properly. If you want a true armor logi go buy one.
Lina Miaoke
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#580 - 2013-12-04 20:16:34 UTC
Makes me sad that we probably wont see a capital ship line up from SoE. Sad