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CCP continues to ignore the plight of missile ships, such as the phoenix in pvp.

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#121 - 2013-12-02 22:13:54 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well.

The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind.

Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook.


LOL...missiles gained ground with the addition of RHML....LOL.


Tell us more about how being able to pump out 1000 DPS on a battleship with HEAVY MISSILES at 47kms is inconsequential.


And what do you while they reload?
Make a sandwich and hope your ship is still there when you come back?



^^ Thanks.

The 40 second reload time on RLMLs and even the RHMLs is ridiculous. For burst or alpha damage there was arty. So a good idea was turned into a "gank weapon". I'm sure the blobs will love it.

Small gangs and people trying to "scrub off" tacklers will find out the hard way who is off-grid boosted and they'll have 40 seconds of doing nothing while they watch. Way to kill a module.


Hell yeah, when I read that when they announced it I decided not to bother with them, silly basically, oh look I have a interceptor on me, change to precisions, oh dear rest of fleet has arrived and I am still reloading, hah!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#122 - 2013-12-02 23:41:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
*grr* edit
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2013-12-03 01:02:07 UTC
Onictus wrote:


You are still trying to defend battleclinic? Holy crap, do you own the domain or something?



I'm not defending it. You haven't really given me a reason why I shouldn't use it... so yeah, nothing to defend yet.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#124 - 2013-12-03 01:02:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
If I'm not mistaken they've already stated they are going to work on a mechanic to allow fast ammo type changes. In other words I if I have a full load of missiles and I need to change ammo type I can do it much quicker than actually reloading... if I have 6 missiles left and need a different type I can swap out those 6 quickly but not actually get a full reload.

That would seem to quell one of the largest complaints with the new system.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Zylithi
Four Mouseketeers
#125 - 2013-12-03 01:08:38 UTC
Hey guys here's an idea!

Instead of:

A) missiles r too week fix pls lawl CCP halllppppp00

Or...

B) lawl care bear noob don't fly faildari lolololol

Try:

Hey yeah here's a solution blah blah blah etc

Here's my idea, increase missile dps slightly to balance lack of alpha, but make it possible for tracking disruptors to affect missiles, make it possible for them to miss/lose their target.

And increase citadel damage significantly. You're sending a house sized explosive into a structure, make the damage scale.
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#126 - 2013-12-03 02:31:27 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well.

The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind.

Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook.

Don't listen to the whining about missiles generally. There is still no effective anti-missile ewar in a solo or small gang setting. Please figure out how to introduce missile TDs. And smartbombing missiles in a blob is an inelegant/imperfect bootstrapping of what is a more effective anti-drone mechanic anyway.

The Phoenix whine is about the only thing valid in the op.

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#127 - 2013-12-03 13:13:44 UTC
Deacon Abox wrote:
Don't listen to the whining about missiles generally. There is still no effective anti-missile ewar in a solo or small gang setting.

Sensor dampeners are pretty effective, fit two of them and stop crying. You can use them as an anti-turret ewar too P

http://tinyurl.com/nlua4xs
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2013-12-03 13:30:36 UTC
I love my Ferox for PvP. And my Hawk. And my Blarpy. And my Worm (Worm counts 'cus it looks like a Merlin). And my Merlin. And my Kestrel. And my Gila (it looks like a Moa!). And my...

You know what, f*** you, I <3 my Caldari.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#129 - 2013-12-03 13:50:03 UTC
Alice Ituin wrote:
I still curse the day when I was a little noob and thought "hey, missiles look cool and can't miss"... -.-
So many wasted skillpoints. Ugh


I feel your pain, actually I don't, I was gonna train missiles but then I read the threads, said **** it and switched to BALASTERZZZZZZZZ

Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#130 - 2013-12-03 13:52:43 UTC
Deacon Abox wrote:
Don't listen to the whining about missiles generally. There is still no effective anti-missile ewar in a solo or small gang setting.


I guess good damage is their ewar (oh snap)
No really, why would there be? they're **** on their own, I would LOL if CCP introduced anti-missile ewar first before fixing missiles.

Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#131 - 2013-12-03 14:00:23 UTC
Onictus wrote:


You are still trying to defend battleclinic? Holy crap, do you own the domain or something?

I get bitter vet agro all the time for not using BC, it's still pretty popular and adequately useful.

Zylithi wrote:
make it possible for tracking disruptors to affect missiles, make it possible for them to miss/lose their target.

No.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#132 - 2013-12-03 16:42:25 UTC
So what's the actual problem with missiles? Is there one?

I need to know so I can train them or not.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#133 - 2013-12-03 16:47:32 UTC  |  Edited by: tiberiusric
CCP Rise wrote:
Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well.

The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind.

Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook.


I dont understand why you keep adding more missile types just to 'fill a gap' You can be doing that forever, adding more and more, the problem is then, that as you have seen, other missiles stop being used, so you end up with the same problem. Just fix the problem with the ones we have instead of creating more. We have a ton of missile launchers and a ton of missile types and varying attributes, surely that was enough to get on with and tweak rather. I mean its crazy to be honest how many we do have.

I just wish when you make changes that you look at the bigger picture rather than just a ship itself. On many occasions you make changes and it just makes a massive mess of things, and people actually end up not using them. You cant just look at it from a ship point of view

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#134 - 2013-12-03 16:51:17 UTC
Jythier Smith wrote:
So what's the actual problem with missiles? Is there one?

I need to know so I can train them or not.


I believe the problem is that the people currently using them have no idea how they should be using and then come to the forums to whine that they should be better.
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#135 - 2013-12-03 17:13:12 UTC
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Deacon Abox wrote:
Don't listen to the whining about missiles generally. There is still no effective anti-missile ewar in a solo or small gang setting.

Sensor dampeners are pretty effective, fit two of them and stop crying. You can use them as an anti-turret ewar too P

http://tinyurl.com/nlua4xs

Not clicking on your link. But you don't read anyway. You even answered the stupidity of your reply in your post.Bear

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2013-12-03 17:34:32 UTC
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Jythier Smith wrote:
So what's the actual problem with missiles? Is there one?
I need to know so I can train them or not.

I believe the problem is that the people currently using them have no idea how they should be using and then come to the forums to whine that they should be better.

Well, being so pro you can always share some of your HM fits and teach the ignorant newbies what to use for wannabe l33t solo / small gang pvp but somehow I doubt you will.
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#137 - 2013-12-03 18:05:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Niena Nuamzzar
Deacon Abox wrote:
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Deacon Abox wrote:
Don't listen to the whining about missiles generally. There is still no effective anti-missile ewar in a solo or small gang setting.

Sensor dampeners are pretty effective, fit two of them and stop crying. You can use them as an anti-turret ewar too P

http://tinyurl.com/nlua4xs

Not clicking on your link. But you don't read anyway. You even answered the stupidity of your reply in your post.Bear

What more do you want? Simply use your sig and speed advantage and you'll be almost missile-proof. With rapid launchers broken, you can laugh at most Caldari ships.
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#138 - 2013-12-03 18:57:05 UTC
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Jythier Smith wrote:
So what's the actual problem with missiles? Is there one?
I need to know so I can train them or not.

I believe the problem is that the people currently using them have no idea how they should be using and then come to the forums to whine that they should be better.

Well, being so pro you can always share some of your HM fits and teach the ignorant newbies what to use for wannabe l33t solo / small gang pvp but somehow I doubt you will.


A few pages or so ago, I did. Your welcome.
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#139 - 2013-12-03 20:13:09 UTC
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:

Well, being so pro you can always share some of your HM fits and teach the ignorant newbies what to use for wannabe l33t solo / small gang pvp but somehow I doubt you will.

A few pages or so ago, I did. Your welcome.

Really, where? Oh, you mean this...

Davon Mandra'thin wrote:

Your an idiot. Missiles are frankly incredible in PvP. You do, of course, need to know how to use them.

or perhaps this one?

Davon Mandra'thin wrote:

I believe the problem is that the people currently using them have no idea how they should be using and then come to the forums to whine that they should be better.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2013-12-03 20:25:59 UTC
Jythier Smith wrote:
So what's the actual problem with missiles? Is there one?

I need to know so I can train them or not.
My opinion.
Missiles great for PvE, less so PvP.

Missile will work and work well in PvP, but...

Torpedoes on Bomber work well, on anything else... Cry
Heavy missiles on a Tengu, but on anything else... Cry
Light missiles on a Scythe Fleet Issue... I had lots of fun.

Cruise Missiles and Heavy Assault don't seem popular.

I hear rockets on a Hookbill in 1vs1 can be fun.

I ran into a large group of Light Missile Talwar... they did well.



If your primary goal is PvP, you might be better off concentrating on Gunnery first.