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CCP continues to ignore the plight of missile ships, such as the phoenix in pvp.

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#61 - 2013-12-02 15:56:39 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

And what do you while they reload?
Make a sandwich and hope your ship is still there when you come back?


Reload times, really? Less than Arty, the same as Shield ASBs. You going to tell me both of those are inconsequential as well? You don't even need to reload when using them against small ships, they will be dead before you need to.


He, like the OP, seems to still live in the fantasy land that equates missiles with massively low DPS weapons.

I guess DPS has changed its meaning too


Derps per Second?
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#62 - 2013-12-02 16:01:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Derps per Second?


LOL then GD has a DPS of.... well its a big number that has a 9 in it (or more)

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#63 - 2013-12-02 16:02:37 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well.

The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind.

Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook.


LOL...missiles gained ground with the addition of RHML....LOL.


Tell us more about how being able to pump out 1000 DPS on a battleship with HEAVY MISSILES at 47kms is inconsequential.


And what do you while they reload?


Drones (like on an armageddon + neuts). or Drones plus guns (like on a typhoon fleet issue with those nice 2 left over high slots after you mount those 6 small RHMLs).

In game that demands creativity, there is a lot of uncreativness going around.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-12-02 16:04:54 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Tell us more about how being able to pump out 1000 DPS on a battleship with HEAVY MISSILES at 47kms is inconsequential.


And what do you while they reload?
Make a sandwich and hope your ship is still there when you come back?


The objective is that by the time you have to reload, everything should be dead.

If this is not the case, then you done frakked up.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-12-02 16:07:14 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
i don't fly missile and laser ships. And i don't fly minmatar ships too.

I just like gallente ships.

Does it make gallente ships OP and other races underpowered?


Correct me if I'm wrong but it use to be hardly anyone would fly Gallente into a PVP situation.

The situation use to be flipped around. Shield kiting was the way to go.

Now armor brawlers are in favor.
Majindoom Shi
Nightmare Logistics
#66 - 2013-12-02 16:54:22 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well.

The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind.

Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook.
Biggest under statements of the year.
They have practically dropped off the map.
And they are preforming well compared to what?

There is practically no situation where a MISSILES is preferred over guns. From incursions to pvp to complex running.

Being usable is not the same as performing well. Also you make it sound like it's only one alliance that's not using missiles but it's not. Most if not all doctrine are gun or drone boats.

Aside from a structure bash missiles are useless; and this is coming from someone who used to be diehard caldari.
Ever since I trained projectiles and hybrids I have not looked at a missile ship.

Want to get into the best incursions fleets? Well you will be laughed at if you try to bring anything but guns.
Ratting? Vindi or Mach out preform anything missile based.

I would really love to see where you are pulling your information from. Because anything we players have access to; you know like playing the game indicates other wise.
And eve kill certainly doesn't confirm any of your statements.

Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#67 - 2013-12-02 17:12:21 UTC
The OP is Caldari whine 9000.Roll And he is a just bad eve player. Whiney child, "my toy isn't as good as Jimmy's whaaaaaa." Meanwhile Tengus with heavy missiles topped last month on Eve-kill. Straight Sorry that I'm bumping this thread.Sad But I can't let a baseless whine like this pass without flaming it's creator.Smile

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

ErrorRon
Turbo-Encabulator LLC
#68 - 2013-12-02 17:17:38 UTC
I didn't think killmails were allowed to be linked on this forum.
Nevertheless Phoenix is probably the best of the 4 dreads for killing capitals and structures. So i have no idea what you're talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtItWL6GfSM CCP Gargant -  Dev of my heart.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#69 - 2013-12-02 17:23:59 UTC
Give the Phoenix a role bonus that removes the speed penalty from the siege mode and it'll gain a significant advantage over other Dreads. Heh.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Trainwreck McGee
Doomheim
#70 - 2013-12-02 17:27:14 UTC
Caldari fan boi rage

best rage.

CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2013-12-02 17:27:59 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Give the Phoenix a role bonus that removes the speed penalty from the siege mode and it'll gain a significant advantage over other Dreads. Heh.



It'll still be speed tanked by Ttians.
Trixie Rocks
Gnomes von Zurich
Get Off My Lawn
#72 - 2013-12-02 17:30:19 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well.

The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind.

Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook.



The biggest problem with Missiles is the RISK involved with skilling them and their Support skills.
When you invest in a weapon and then that weapon becomes NERFed so badly (By YOU) as you did the RLML, then the support skills are worthless for that investment for that character, and more so if that character was specialized.

Fix the Support skills and make ALL weapons use the SAME support skills and you will have made a HUGE improvement to this game. This is why Missiles are so Risky to train for. all TURRET weapons use similar support skills, making missiles the odd duck.
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#73 - 2013-12-02 17:39:12 UTC
Chi Garu wrote:
OP posts a thread about missile weapons, rabble reads it as a buff caldari thread, go figure.

"Caldari are being ignored by the devs, they have been for years. It is pitiful." - post 5

He has skillfully edited the op.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#74 - 2013-12-02 17:47:56 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well.

The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind.

Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook.

Fix the damn broken stuff, before starting to design new ships and pretend that a ship so broken that nobody uses it, can wait. Please. :p

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
DHB WildCat
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#75 - 2013-12-02 17:53:22 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well.

The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind.

Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook.




Kil2 I love you and I think we are still in game friends, but you are NO MISSILE expert. Geddons / Tempests and Ferox's do not a missile expert make. I think I and my Burn Eden brothers have a little pull when it comes to missiles. Ill let you know some player insight about them that I hope you'll take into consideration in upcoming patches.

1) Selectable damage type is the ONLY saving grace for todays missile user. You at CCP refuse to change the dame kinetic bonus to an universal one so we are forced to use kinetic if we want high damage..... however......

2) Gallente FOTM. T2 gallente have near 90% kinetic resists base.... freaking stupid. Missile boats now have to change damage type to either EM or Exp to do any sort of damage to them...... but wait......

3) RLML and RHML .... okay deimos on field switching to em damage.... 40 seconds later, you're either dead or ran away, cause you CANT change ammo types to be effective in 40 seconds. Or you can continue to shoot kinetic at the diemos as it laughs at you until you die.

4) CNR has more applicable damage to frigs and cruisers with cruise missiles than with RHML. This is stupid. Yes the ROF is faster on the RHML but how the heck is a BS sized weapon doing more per hit on a frig than a cruiser sized weapon!? WTF.


I have a lot of other examples and references, I could go on for days. I just wish you guys would start taking some more outside input again. Your view on certain things are way to narrowed and focused to be able to see everything.

WildCat
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2013-12-02 17:57:33 UTC
Caviar Liberta wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
i don't fly missile and laser ships. And i don't fly minmatar ships too.

I just like gallente ships.

Does it make gallente ships OP and other races underpowered?


Correct me if I'm wrong but it use to be hardly anyone would fly Gallente into a PVP situation.

The situation use to be flipped around. Shield kiting was the way to go.

Now armor brawlers are in favor.

not really: if you get caught by kiter in your brawler in most cases you will die without any hope.

yes, gallente and hybrids became good choice in PvP but i still see lots of ships of other races in low-sec around.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
CCP Dolan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#77 - 2013-12-02 18:01:04 UTC
Cleaned out some killmail links.

34. Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.

More often than not, posts of this nature are made with inflammatory intent and are designed to promote trolling and flaming. Therefore, the posting of links to kill reports from any third party site, or the direct copy-pasting of kill reports from in game is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online Forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel.
Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel.

CCP Dolan | Community Representative

Twitter: @CCPDolan

Gooby pls
Alice Ituin
Doomheim
#78 - 2013-12-02 18:04:33 UTC
I still curse the day when I was a little noob and thought "hey, missiles look cool and can't miss"... -.-
So many wasted skillpoints. Ugh
Lifelongnoob
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-12-02 18:34:17 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well.

The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind.

Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook.


make the phoenix a hybrid dread rather than missile dread
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2013-12-02 19:09:38 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:

4) CNR has more applicable damage to frigs and cruisers with cruise missiles than with RHML. This is stupid.

Well if that's the case CCP 40sec and CCP HM Destroyer can't help but conclude that CM's must be OP and they will happily do everything in their power to make it balanced. Expect heavy nerf coming with Rubicon 1.1