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Eve Online: A refreshing Game...
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Dal-Amara Furion
#1 - 2013-12-02 03:16:07 UTC
This is my 1st post:

I've been gaming a long, long time and on top of that I'm a new player here at Eve Online.

What I find refreshing here and I've seen references in the forums here is the fact someone new simply just can't pick up the game and in 1 day start owning everyone in the game. I've played the crap out of FPS's and MMO's and there is nothing more detesting than having a beginner, level one, or other, start the game and kick the crap out of your seasoned character, no matter your level.

It is refreshing... here... the hierarchy of ships and weapons and that hierarchy is maintained. There is no shotgun sniper rifle, or a pistol that hits harder than a 50 caliber sniper rifle... this is great!!!

I do hope as I train up and eventually join the ranks of the higher players that this concept remains in tact. While everyone else is nerfing weapons to be equal, to the degree that it makes no sense, I hope it remains a fact here that not all weapons and ships are not equal. Simple rules of power do exist, you don't take a pee shooter to a machine gun fight, unless of course you are playing battlefield 2-3-4 or the Call of Duty games.

The only complaint I do have are the training times, there is no reason to bore a new player to death. I'm sure this concept has ran many of players off. So I would ask for a reconsideration in this area and making the sensible move to more acceptable training times. ( In case any Dev's read this)

Thanks again!

Live Pure, Speak the Truth, Right Wrongs, Be Fair and Be Just... This is not just God's will, this is your obligation to all Humanity.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-12-02 03:19:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
Dal-Amara Furion wrote:


It is refreshing... here... the hierarchy of ships and weapons and that hierarchy is maintained. There is no shotgun sniper rifle, or a pistol that hits harder than a 50 caliber sniper rifle... this is great!!!



Not yet, but wait for it. Corporate culture "evolves" as various new hires begin to mark their territory...

And welcome. Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
ROXGenghis
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-12-02 03:26:26 UTC
9/10
lollerwaffle
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-12-02 03:42:00 UTC
Dal-Amara Furion wrote:

I've played the crap out of FPS's and MMO's and there is nothing more detesting than having a beginner, level one, or other, start the game and kick the crap out of your seasoned character, no matter your level.
Be prepared to be disappointed. A new-ish (2-3 months?) player can very easily kick the crap out of older players flying bigger ships, IF the new player is prepared, and knows the ins and outs of the type of PVP he's engaging in, while the old player doesn't (carebear for 2-3 years type etc.)


Quote:
It is refreshing... here... the hierarchy of ships and weapons and that hierarchy is maintained. There is no shotgun sniper rifle, or a pistol that hits harder than a 50 caliber sniper rifle... this is great!!!

Until you have a battleship tickled to death by a frigate orbiting under his guns.

Quote:
I do hope as I train up and eventually join the ranks of the higher players that this concept remains in tact. While everyone else is nerfing weapons to be equal, to the degree that it makes no sense, I hope it remains a fact here that not all weapons and ships are not equal. Simple rules of power do exist, you don't take a pee shooter to a machine gun fight, unless of course you are playing battlefield 2-3-4 or the Call of Duty games.

Agreed, and indeed not everything is created equal.

Quote:
The only complaint I do have are the training times, there is no reason to bore a new player to death. I'm sure this concept has ran many of players off. So I would ask for a reconsideration in this area and making the sensible move to more acceptable training times. ( In case any Dev's read this)

Not to be mean, but you're not the first person to suggest this, and I'm not the first person to shoot this down as a bad idea. Training times are sensible as is.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#5 - 2013-12-02 04:03:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Dal-Amara Furion wrote:
The only complaint I do have are the training times, there is no reason to bore a new player to death. I'm sure this concept has ran many of players off. So I would ask for a reconsideration in this area and making the sensible move to more acceptable training times. ( In case any Dev's read this)


10/10 for the rest of your post, but this last bit I have to disagree with.

As stated above, you aren't the first to suggest this, but the fact that there's no 'insta-win button' and no 'pay-to-win' here is great.

While many people get attached to the value of the ships they fly, the real value and sense of achievement exists in training your character up over the long haul.

The 10 year old characters in this game still haven't finished the training queues and the history of the game deserves to have the training times remain as is.

If you want to train faster, use some implants and make best use of attribute remapping, however even then there are long training times.

Realistically though, if you have a specific profession in mind, you can be good at it after about 3 months training (some professions much less).

A pvp character can be useful quickly and decent in 3 months (player skills at pvp can be shorter or longer)
A cloaky scout/bomber can be really competent in 2 months
A PI character can be competent in less than 2 weeks

There are lots of options in this game and the best way to get value out of training is to figure out what you want to do and train specifically for it.
Dal-Amara Furion
#6 - 2013-12-02 04:04:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Dal-Amara Furion
@ lollerwaffle

Naa, you are not being mean. You are being honest. =)

In FPS it's not about skill, it's about paying your 25 bucks a month at whatever hack site they get their hacks from. I've seen 1st day players with 60-1 kill death ratios. At least here, if you mess up and give someone else the upper hand, then you get killed. I've never had a problem with being killed when I wasn't ready, ill prepared, or just being plain stupid. The problem is a 1900 meter head shot from a pistol and tweaks that give speed advantages.

thanks for your post!



@ Scipio Artelius

Your input is greatly appreciated as well. Thank you...

It is important for a game to have it's own... personality, this one certainly does. It seems to me that the size of this game as well as the learning curve, and depth, the training times for at least the beginning options should be lowered. As I am impressed with the complexity and hierarchy design in this game, someone looking to decide if they are interested my lose that potential interest by the training times.

But, what do I know, I'm a noob and will certainly place weight on your insight and knowledge.

Live Pure, Speak the Truth, Right Wrongs, Be Fair and Be Just... This is not just God's will, this is your obligation to all Humanity.
Casanunda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-12-02 04:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Casanunda
Dal-Amara Furion wrote:

The only complaint I do have are the training times, there is no reason to bore a new player to death. I'm sure this concept has ran many of players off. So I would ask for a reconsideration in this area and making the sensible move to more acceptable training times. ( In case any Dev's read this)

Thanks again!

The training times are much shorter than they used to be, we used to have these things called learning skills, which were pretty much essential for quicker skill training, and could eat up around 50 days of training time to get to a reasonable level at the 2x training bonus newbies used to get.

Welcome to Eve, we have a few "rules"

  • Don't fly anything you can't afford to lose or don't feel comfortable losing, everything explodes eventually Pirate
  • If it sounds too good to be true, it's a scam, if it doesn't sound too good to be true, you simply haven't figured out what the scam is yet.
  • Bigger is not better, don't rush towards your first battlecruiser or battleship, spend time in frigates, destroyers and cruisers until you know the ropes, and have decent support skills trained.
  • Never pay a "security deposit" to join a corporation, you'll never see the money, or membership.


o7 fly safe, or not.

The fact that I am not a gazillionaire Gallente aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino is a constant niggle.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#8 - 2013-12-02 04:26:26 UTC
Dal-Amara Furion wrote:
I've played the crap out of FPS's and MMO's and there is nothing more detesting than having a beginner, level one, or other, start the game and kick the crap out of your seasoned character, no matter your level.
Hue hue hue

10/10, made me giggle

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Dal-Amara Furion
#9 - 2013-12-02 04:29:37 UTC
@ Casanunda

Thank you for your input as well. You guys are posting faster than I can respond to each of you.

I will heed your advice they are excellent words to live by.

Live Pure, Speak the Truth, Right Wrongs, Be Fair and Be Just... This is not just God's will, this is your obligation to all Humanity.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2013-12-02 04:38:12 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Dal-Amara Furion wrote:
The only complaint I do have are the training times, there is no reason to bore a new player to death. I'm sure this concept has ran many of players off. So I would ask for a reconsideration in this area and making the sensible move to more acceptable training times. ( In case any Dev's read this)

I'll second the others. When you understand how the skill system works... it's quite ingenious.

- offline training allows you to play the game rather than grind (but there has to be something to offset this).

- slow training means you have to actually think tactically about how you can achieve your goals with minimal resources (in this case, skillpoints). And there is ALWAYS a way to achieve any goal... some of them just require other players.

- slow training encourages you to really take the time necessary to learn about each specialty in the game and stick with it.

- speaking as a veteran... count your blessings being "stuck" with low-skill ships and weaponry. They are generally cheaper which means that when you get blown up (and it's only a matter of time here in EVE) you will feel less of a loss.

- still speaking as a veteran... newbie training times are relatively VERY short. Balking at the 5 to 7 days to get [racial] Frigate to level 5? Try ~20+ days to get [racial] Cruiser to level 5... or ~30+ days to get [racial] Battleship to level 5. And the training time for the weapon systems of each corresponding class are no better.

- take it in stride. Skill restrictions for many ships, weapons, and modifications have been reduced by significant margins. It's easier than ever to train into a specific specialty and/or gain access to "high tech" stuff without jumping through hoops.



As for the rest... you have the right idea. Take it slow and gain allies... build your powerbase... learn the nuances of the game... experiment even when things don't look good. You will go far in EVE.

How did you Veterans start?
Dal-Amara Furion
#11 - 2013-12-02 10:56:40 UTC
@ ShahFluffers

I'm a patient person and will use your guide as well as the advice from the other posters. I will also remain diligent in seeking advice on matters such as these.

Thank you for your valuable input.

Live Pure, Speak the Truth, Right Wrongs, Be Fair and Be Just... This is not just God's will, this is your obligation to all Humanity.
Model Number 087
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-12-02 11:13:22 UTC
For the first time, you find the skill training times long, but after a while you deal with this. Nowdays a 10 day skill level just seems to be medicore time for me. EVE teach you a lot of patience. Also you don't need to hurry. You need a lifetime to be comfortable all aspects of the game, so there is so much to learn and explore in this world. I started in 2009, and nowdays I still have a lot aspects of the game to try to. I played a bunch of games, but since I played with EVE, no other games can get my interest any more.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#13 - 2013-12-02 11:17:02 UTC


Good post

Ow it hurt to say that (not my forte) but true


However

What is it that you are wanting to learn that you find it has a painful learning time?

Not saying some skills dont take a loooong time but these are generally worth it

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-12-02 11:18:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
Dal-Amara Furion wrote:
This is my 1st post:

I've been gaming a long, long time and on top of that I'm a new player here at Eve Online.

What I find refreshing here and I've seen references in the forums here is the fact someone new simply just can't pick up the game and in 1 day start owning everyone in the game. I've played the crap out of FPS's and MMO's and there is nothing more detesting than having a beginner, level one, or other, start the game and kick the crap out of your seasoned character, no matter your level.

It is refreshing... here... the hierarchy of ships and weapons and that hierarchy is maintained. There is no shotgun sniper rifle, or a pistol that hits harder than a 50 caliber sniper rifle... this is great!!!

I do hope as I train up and eventually join the ranks of the higher players that this concept remains in tact. While everyone else is nerfing weapons to be equal, to the degree that it makes no sense, I hope it remains a fact here that not all weapons and ships are not equal. Simple rules of power do exist, you don't take a pee shooter to a machine gun fight, unless of course you are playing battlefield 2-3-4 or the Call of Duty games.

The only complaint I do have are the training times, there is no reason to bore a new player to death. I'm sure this concept has ran many of players off. So I would ask for a reconsideration in this area and making the sensible move to more acceptable training times. ( In case any Dev's read this)

Thanks again!

Refreshing!Welcome to Eve we need more of your Kind.

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#15 - 2013-12-02 11:33:12 UTC
Dal-Amara Furion wrote:
This is my 1st post:

I've been gaming a long, long time and on top of that I'm a new player here at Eve Online.

What I find refreshing here and I've seen references in the forums here is the fact someone new simply just can't pick up the game and in 1 day start owning everyone in the game. I've played the crap out of FPS's and MMO's and there is nothing more detesting than having a beginner, level one, or other, start the game and kick the crap out of your seasoned character, no matter your level.

It is refreshing... here... the hierarchy of ships and weapons and that hierarchy is maintained. There is no shotgun sniper rifle, or a pistol that hits harder than a 50 caliber sniper rifle... this is great!!!

I do hope as I train up and eventually join the ranks of the higher players that this concept remains in tact. While everyone else is nerfing weapons to be equal, to the degree that it makes no sense, I hope it remains a fact here that not all weapons and ships are not equal. Simple rules of power do exist, you don't take a pee shooter to a machine gun fight, unless of course you are playing battlefield 2-3-4 or the Call of Duty games.

The only complaint I do have are the training times, there is no reason to bore a new player to death. I'm sure this concept has ran many of players off. So I would ask for a reconsideration in this area and making the sensible move to more acceptable training times. ( In case any Dev's read this)

Thanks again!


Rock... paper... SCISSORS!

The idea isn't having overwhelmingly powerful, high-skill weapons, but counters and force multipliers. The "pea shooter to a machine gun fight" analogy implies you think one should always bring a machine gun, but in EVE that pea shooter is often a vital role in that machine gun fight.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Asura Vajrarupa
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-12-02 11:34:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Asura Vajrarupa
This:

Dal-Amara Furion wrote:
The only complaint I do have are the training times,


negates this:

Dal-Amara Furion wrote:
What I find refreshing here and I've seen references in the forums here is the fact someone new simply just can't pick up the game and in 1 day start owning everyone in the game.


This game has plenty in it to do; you just have to look, try things out, do stuff. Boredom is synonymous with laziness here. Stop looking for the theme-park track, there isn't one.

Ignorance is the cause of suffering.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#17 - 2013-12-02 11:40:56 UTC
Dal-Amara Furion wrote:
This is my 1st post:
The only complaint I do have are the training times, there is no reason to bore a new player to death. I'm sure this concept has ran many of players off. So I would ask for a reconsideration in this area and making the sensible move to more acceptable training times. ( In case any Dev's read this)


I know, in the begginning one can be in urge to try things and feel the skill requirements as a barrier. But the progression system is very well designed, probably the best characteristic of EVE, and when you get it you love it.
Also now CCP rearranged things so everyone can have a taste of almost any aspect of the game since the beginning.

Is also slow and log term gameplay. In any MMORPG aafter one month you have generally capped the character progression, in EVE after one year you're still a noob. But this do not preclude you the access to any area of the game.

Slow progression is also a natural filter against too kiddish players

Anyway, welcome. :)
Dal-Amara Furion
#18 - 2013-12-02 19:18:30 UTC
Okay, okay, I get the idea, lol.

Everyone has been so kind and helpful! I appreciate all the input, suggestion, and guidance. I'm working through the skills and looking at my options and directions.

I do need to jump in and learn more about the in's and outs of the game.

Everyone here has been very helpful, thanks!

Live Pure, Speak the Truth, Right Wrongs, Be Fair and Be Just... This is not just God's will, this is your obligation to all Humanity.
Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#19 - 2013-12-02 19:23:49 UTC
The nice people hang out on the forums.
Bloody Slave
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-12-02 19:36:34 UTC
Your signature tells something.

You are getting nice and helpful inputs in GD just because your positive behavior, if you play and act in game like that you will have the same happening there, otherwise read my signature.

BTW, welcome, and try to keep your words always like this, even when you are ganked and poded.Pirate

Fly safe.

If your balls are hurt and bleeding don't sit in a pool full of piranhas (note to myself: don't complain in GD)
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