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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Empires

Author
Archturus Kerensky
Cetacean Nation
#1 - 2013-12-01 04:16:48 UTC
A thought I have had and wonder what people would think about this.

Adding another tier in the corporation, alliance section. By joining alliances into coalitions or empires.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-12-01 05:16:06 UTC
Alliances should start acting like alliances and not x-large corporations. At that point coalitions would not be a "thing"

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#3 - 2013-12-01 05:21:25 UTC
We have players, groups of players, and groups of player groups. Adding a group of a group of player groups seems a little silly.
Endovior
PFU Consortium
#4 - 2013-12-01 06:07:40 UTC
Basically, you have to look at it in terms of what the different groupings are used for. Corporations are the unit of personal organization. Alliances are the unit of military organization. Coalitions are the quasi-imaginary unit of political organization.

The game mechanical function of corporations are reasonably workable, which makes them suited to most personal organization tasks. Alliances are more sketchy, but that's because they're the ones that carry all the sov warfare baggage... which is why they serve as the unit of military organization. Military organization can be identical to the political level, but military groups which are friendly with each other can act as a coalition, which is what drives the political metagame. There's no real need for a separate in-game unit here, since political organization happens on the metagame level, and is represented by the in-game standings system instead.

Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Alliances should start acting like alliances and not x-large corporations. At that point coalitions would not be a "thing"


That's an artifact of two things. One is the sov war mechanics, which incentivize large groupings (need lots of guys to grind large structures, which are held at the alliance level); the other is the corporation mechanics, which penalize large groupings (need high skills to have a lot of guys in one corporation). The result, again, is that it's most practical to organize military actions around the alliance level, which can have the 'extra-large corporation' effect you mentioned. Personally, I find that a good thing; you should be on good terms both with your corporation (your close associates) and your alliance (your comrades-in-arms).

If you don't think that's a good thing, the change needs to happen at the sov war level. If sov was primarily held at the corporate level, rather than the alliance level, then alliances could be less firm (as a split in relations could involve a civil war, rather than a simple eviction).
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5 - 2013-12-01 06:43:10 UTC
A single player Corp can hold about 6000 Members. This means that the entirety of the CFC could fit into 7 Corporations. All of EVE could fit into less than 100 Corps.
An alliance can hold a lot more than 7 corps. Explain to me again why we need another Super layer added to the game rather than people using the in game systems to their maximum potential?
Endovior
PFU Consortium
#6 - 2013-12-01 06:52:58 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
A single player Corp can hold about 6000 Members. This means that the entirety of the CFC could fit into 7 Corporations. All of EVE could fit into less than 100 Corps.

Yes, but only with dedicated characters. Most people have better things to do with their skillpoints... and don't care to pay extra for a dedicated CEO alt. Most corporations are small because most player groupings are small; just because you're in charge of a group doesn't mean you want to personally be responsible for a giant empire. Player groups are as large as they need to be, and they grow and shrink in response to organic pressures. That's healthy.

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
An alliance can hold a lot more than 7 corps. Explain to me again why we need another Super layer added to the game rather than people using the in game systems to their maximum potential?

Of course, there's no need for any level higher than alliances; that's the realm of politics and metagaming.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#7 - 2013-12-01 07:07:48 UTC
Endovior wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
A single player Corp can hold about 6000 Members. This means that the entirety of the CFC could fit into 7 Corporations. All of EVE could fit into less than 100 Corps.

Yes, but only with dedicated characters. Most people have better things to do with their skillpoints... and don't care to pay extra for a dedicated CEO alt. Most corporations are small because most player groupings are small; just because you're in charge of a group doesn't mean you want to personally be responsible for a giant empire. Player groups are as large as they need to be, and they grow and shrink in response to organic pressures. That's healthy.

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
An alliance can hold a lot more than 7 corps. Explain to me again why we need another Super layer added to the game rather than people using the in game systems to their maximum potential?

Of course, there's no need for any level higher than alliances; that's the realm of politics and metagaming.

Uh, not with only dedicated characters.

It takes 82 days WITHOUT a remap to train to Sov V (Someone can bother to calculate how long it takes with a remap), for maximum number of members in your corp. Additionally you only need access to a single character with that, who can then 'update' the corp management & leave to do the same for the other corps in their alliance. So each alliance only needs one character to spend.... a whole 82 days? And that is a dedicated character?

To put 82 days in perspective.
To max out the Core Capacitor, Hull, Armour & Shield skills and their respective upgrade skills is 85 days. Thats not including Repair Systems, Shield Compensation, Armour Compensation or anything like that. Just the base Mechanics, Shield Operation, Hull Upgrades, Energy Grid Upgrades & such.

So I don't think 82 days is exactly an ask.
If it is. you can go for about 5000 members in a mere 50 days instead by only taking Sov skill to IV instead of V.