EVE General Discussion

Lot of people in here are getting periods.

They could do it, but economically... why would they?

500M ISK for wardec + 100M ISK for customs office to own a POCO... instead of a 10%-15% tax on simply using another Corps POCO.

Not a lot of profit in owning one, if you are a small highsec Corp.

Plus being a small corp war decing them to take a POCO is economically viable. The system as is is going to put 95%+ of all high sec POCOs in the hands of huge corps simply through the reality of economics.

I wouldn't have thought there was that much profitable PI being done in Highsec... other than factory planets close to the main trading areas. That is a lot of structure to defend... I wonder if the return on investment will be worth it?


I believe the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal will try and interdict targeted PI mats... 'work the market'. Whether they want to or can, I don't know. Trying to control PI seems a lot more difficult that Moon Goo, but if any group can do it the Goonswarm are the one.

I agree, that if the bigger Corps keep tax reasonable, economically there is little reason for people doing highsec PI to try and take them away.

That means if this was CCPs attempt at a conflict driver, it would have to be other types of corps that would fight for them. Null and Lowsec PvP type corps/alliances. We will see if that happens.

Maybe the little guy taking on Goons for a POCO isn't bad game design. It's just a poor strategical decision. For the record, I AM the little guy. We took on smaller targets, with a smaller chance of retribution, before we even thought of knocking 0.0 influences out of the system we inhabit. And we did that when we suspected they would not even show for the timer, as their owners we pre-occupied with sov warfare at the time. It would make sense for a large 0.0 entity to ignore low-priority assets in the arse end of the universe.

POCO ownership is a game you can turtle. Attain twice the operational cost in assets, and execute your plan. Should it fail, regain the operational cost once and try again. Should it succeed, regain operational cost and sit tight, count your ISK. Do your research and find target owning corps to which you can stack up. If you want to start POCO ownership in hisec I would pick a small corp that acted on Rubicon's landgrab, but has no KB to speak of. You might recover some of the cost if you get some nice kills in the following week.

Having a single person to talk to makes this whole grinding deal a lot less painfull. I've got POCO kills listing me doing 40% of the damage solo in a BS, a result of determination, time and a tad of crazy boredom. It's the closest to socially mining I will ever get so pardon me if I enjoy bashing with my friends for a bit. You only need a couple of BS and some time to pop one. I'm not one to frequently plan ops in hisec, but the current conditions there would make me say: dec smart, have patience, and don't let your asset list outgrow your member count. It's still a numbers game, but in my experience the little guy is far from powerless in this game.

First of all I agree with you that it is a poor strategic decision for any small entity to try to take a POCO off of either the Goons, one of the other CFC alliances or RvB. The CFC as a whole has incredible staying power and is so good at grinding down its enemies, they are the elite sov warfare block in Eve and have rightly gained their position through hard work.

The problem I come from is that CCP are game designers, their stated aim was to create a combat driver with the implementation of POCO's in 0.0, in fact all they became was another one of the sov items that you needed to grind down in 0.0, when you go into 0.0 you find a fair few systems with POCO's from alliances that were controlling the system 18 months ago. No one attacks them to instigate combat, they failed in that game design. So now they think hmm how can we create more combat drivers in hisec, let people own POCO's, but by tying the ownership into the wardec system with its already skewed advantage to major alliances they made it certain that only large entities will control them with some smaller entities playing around the edges. Without taking the balance issue into account I call it what it is, bad game design if the stated aim was to increase content in hisec, it fails.

Taking a POCO is relatively easy, I have killed a few in my time in 0.0, I had already worked out the strategic requirements to take one from a major alliance, the most important requirement being that they were on deployment and that the POCO was not in a central location, your strategic decision in terms of the POCO's owned by the Initiative and Insidious Empire was spot on, it may be that they found no value in them too, hard to say, but they could always come back.

Where I have been operating I noticed quite a few POCO's changing hands all to smaller entities, so far its been quite good in this area, but its an area that is next to 0.0 which its current owners only live there while fighting elsewhere to gain sov they want, it has poor markets, in fact I am moving to 0.0 NPC soon. It may be that it keeps this small POCO ownership, but that really depends on a couple of factors. If the Goons and others can go in, take a POCO and through the war dec cost have a certain amount of protection against having to continuously protect them, then over time they will eventually take them all.

Its just like Sov space, the war dec fee is the big stick for POCO's, in 0.0 its the Blob, look how that ended up, I made my suggestions to adjust the way this worked with this in mind, and I have to admit to being angry with CCP, why don't they think this through, or they don't care, I don't know. But at least we have personal depots and siphons, so they have done something for the little guy at least this time. One thing I have to say is that through POCO ownership hisec people could have had a way to get back at the Goons, but with the war dec fee being what it is, it is not going to happen...

When I initially replied in this thread I wanted to point out to the OP that he could be a pain to the owners of planets that were resource driven by depleting the key materials, but that would only work against people whose prime motive was to make ISK, not those whose may have griefing hisec as equal billing with making ISK. The thing is that we all have some power, but if the Goons for example have the intent to take the POCO's to grief hisec pubbies then there is little one can do to resist that and certainly no profit, because the Goons are relentless, nothing to do with Grrr Goons. I have fought them a number of times and they don't often lose. What Myanna posted was funny, but it looks like they want to grief and make ISK, its working out which is the prime motive which is key, we will find out over time.

EDIT: This is a fun thread indeed

Come to The Forge and use RvBee planets. Benefits include:

1. Low taxes
2. Market accessibility
3. Large planet type mixture
4. Strong, reputable leadership
5. Coordinated defense capabilities to keep the POCOs in stable hands.


Del

I remember repping our pocos thrice.

You certainly helped earn some n3 renters a slightly slower burn of their structures, I'm sure progodlegend's wallet thanks you

If you wanted them that badly, you could have avoided the wardec fees, reinforcement timers and defence fleets by getting there first and shooting them when they were interbus COs.

It's not up to CCP to balance against your lack of foresight.

Also if we literally paid you to wardec us it wouldn't change the ownership of any POCOs, so.

Everyone saying "But it's not the intended conflict driver!" has clearly stayed on the forums too long and come to the conclusion RvBee own every highsec POCO. There's loads out there to be fighting over.