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Exploit: Bumping in order to prevent E-Warp

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Infineon SE
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-11-29 12:11:22 UTC
Are those "bumping guys" getting permanently banned for exploit use?
BigSako
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-11-29 12:19:19 UTC
Khador Vess wrote:
Kashmyta wrote:
Khador Vess wrote:
St Rannik wrote:
Khador Vess wrote:
This makes no sense to me, If you undock a ship you've already lost it you just don't know it yet. If your would-be attacker has the presence of mind to stop you e-warping by bumping you and can kill you how is this still an exploit?

cause you can't do anything about it, you can't shoot back, can't light a cyno, can't slowboat away etc...


So? If someone has scanned down your e-warp spot and cant kill you before you are removed from space, and they have either the patience to wait for you to reconnect surely thats your problem.

Someone made clever use of a mechanic, someone else lost an expensive ship and now its an exploit is how this looks to me...

Go figure



Forget the first part of your comment. This is specifically about the logging in part. Log out safely without any form of aggression, in this example safely in a pos shield and then being bumped at your e-warp spot when you log in again.


Ok, so my first part was not clear, i did not mean that someone had agression at logoff or were necessarily even agressed before being removed form space, im jsut saying that the mechanic is that you e-warp to a spot and are removed form space after a certain amount of time, this is usually not enough time to kill a ship.

If someone grabs your e-warp spot as you warp out from a pos shield i still dont see why its an exploit to prevent your e-warp back in... you cant activate mods... fine, you are completely helpless... fine... thats the way its always worked before.

Someone lost a shiny ship and now suddenly its an exploit.


you also clearly dont understand how the mechanics work.

You can NOT probe the emergency warp OUT spot of somebody. Well you can, but it won't help you because the ship will just disappear (unless it logged out with aggression).

The spot to spawn in, is a completely different spot. The spot is being picked randomly at exactly 1 Million Kilometer from the log out spot (so in most cases for supercapitals, a POS). It will with certainty not be the same spot you disappeared after your emergency warp out.

Now in this case, titans and supers take (depending on fit and pilot skills) between 11 seconds and 40 seconds to be fully aligned to enter warp, which is more then enough time to probe and warp a bumping ship to it.

Battleships and below will literally align in 15 seconds, which is NOT enough time to be probed down and warped onto. So your statement "Someone lost a shiny ship and now suddenly its an exploit" is absolutely wrong, because noone has ever lost a NON shiny ship to this game mechanic (and I consider carriers, freighters and above as shinys).


To re-iterate what has been said: When you log in (and you didnt have aggression before), you can
NOT be warp scrambled
NOT be bubbled (you can, but you will just warp out of bubbles)
NOT cancel your warp
NOT jump to a cyno
NOT cloak
NOT defend yourself properly

I have tried this out like 2 years ago already, when I was fishing a titan, and I probed it down in time and fleet warped a dictor to it. The titan just warped out of the bubble - and done. As a matter of fact, this "mechanic" has been known long enough and many plans have been made to kill titans/supercarriers in exactly this way, and most of the time people did rise their opinion on how this is an exploit.
Another matter of fact: There has already been a case like this, when a supercarrier/titan was tackled and the aggressors were claiming an exploit when the super/titan warped out of the bubble.
This was even recorded and put on youtube, though I can't find that. There was a huge post and uproar about an exploit at that time.
BigSako
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2013-11-29 12:27:30 UTC
Infineon SE wrote:
Are those "bumping guys" getting permanently banned for exploit use?


Not sure, as it has only been declared an exploit today.

But sure enough I know some people in the CFC that already tried to exploit it (but failed at doing it).
St Rannik
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#44 - 2013-11-29 12:30:43 UTC
Khador Vess wrote:

So? If someone has scanned down your e-warp spot and cant kill you before you are removed from space, and they have either the patience to wait for you to reconnect surely thats your problem.

Someone made clever use of a mechanic, someone else lost an expensive ship and now its an exploit is how this looks to me...

Go figure

it's not the intended mechanic, simple as that
Khador Vess
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#45 - 2013-11-29 12:32:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Khador Vess
BigSako wrote:

you also clearly dont understand how the mechanics work.

You can NOT probe the emergency warp OUT spot of somebody. Well you can, but it won't help you because the ship will just disappear (unless it logged out with aggression).

The spot to spawn in, is a completely different spot. The spot is being picked randomly at exactly 1 Million Kilometer from the log out spot (so in most cases for supercapitals, a POS). It will with certainty not be the same spot you disappeared after your emergency warp out.

Now in this case, titans and supers take (depending on fit and pilot skills) between 11 seconds and 40 seconds to be fully aligned to enter warp, which is more then enough time to probe and warp a bumping ship to it.

Battleships and below will literally align in 15 seconds, which is NOT enough time to be probed down and warped onto. So your statement "Someone lost a shiny ship and now suddenly its an exploit" is absolutely wrong, because noone has ever lost a NON shiny ship to this game mechanic (and I consider carriers, freighters and above as shinys).


To re-iterate what has been said: When you log in (and you didnt have aggression before), you can
NOT be warp scrambled
NOT be bubbled (you can, but you will just warp out of bubbles)
NOT cancel your warp
NOT jump to a cyno
NOT cloak
NOT defend yourself properly

I have tried this out like 2 years ago already, when I was fishing a titan, and I probed it down in time and fleet warped a dictor to it. The titan just warped out of the bubble - and done. As a matter of fact, this "mechanic" has been known long enough and many plans have been made to kill titans/supercarriers in exactly this way, and most of the time people did rise their opinion on how this is an exploit.
Another matter of fact: There has already been a case like this, when a supercarrier/titan was tackled and the aggressors were claiming an exploit when the super/titan warped out of the bubble.
This was even recorded and put on youtube, though I can't find that. There was a huge post and uproar about an exploit at that time.


I didn't fully understand the very first PART of this, thanks for clearing that up, i thought the two spots were the same, they are not however it still makes no difference though.

your ship is in space outside the pos, thats the mechanic of the e warp. Your ship gets killed because someone lays a trap, thats the long and short of it, shiny or not, someone planned and executed a trap well...
Koban Agalder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2013-11-29 12:34:00 UTC
Khador Vess wrote:
BigSako wrote:

you also clearly dont understand how the mechanics work.

You can NOT probe the emergency warp OUT spot of somebody. Well you can, but it won't help you because the ship will just disappear (unless it logged out with aggression).

The spot to spawn in, is a completely different spot. The spot is being picked randomly at exactly 1 Million Kilometer from the log out spot (so in most cases for supercapitals, a POS). It will with certainty not be the same spot you disappeared after your emergency warp out.

Now in this case, titans and supers take (depending on fit and pilot skills) between 11 seconds and 40 seconds to be fully aligned to enter warp, which is more then enough time to probe and warp a bumping ship to it.

Battleships and below will literally align in 15 seconds, which is NOT enough time to be probed down and warped onto. So your statement "Someone lost a shiny ship and now suddenly its an exploit" is absolutely wrong, because noone has ever lost a NON shiny ship to this game mechanic (and I consider carriers, freighters and above as shinys).


To re-iterate what has been said: When you log in (and you didnt have aggression before), you can
NOT be warp scrambled
NOT be bubbled (you can, but you will just warp out of bubbles)
NOT cancel your warp
NOT jump to a cyno
NOT cloak
NOT defend yourself properly

I have tried this out like 2 years ago already, when I was fishing a titan, and I probed it down in time and fleet warped a dictor to it. The titan just warped out of the bubble - and done. As a matter of fact, this "mechanic" has been known long enough and many plans have been made to kill titans/supercarriers in exactly this way, and most of the time people did rise their opinion on how this is an exploit.
Another matter of fact: There has already been a case like this, when a supercarrier/titan was tackled and the aggressors were claiming an exploit when the super/titan warped out of the bubble.
This was even recorded and put on youtube, though I can't find that. There was a huge post and uproar about an exploit at that time.


I didn't fully understand the very first PART of this, thanks for clearing that up however it still makes no difference though.

your ship is in space outside the pos, thats the mechanic of the e warp. Your ship gets killed because someone lays a trap, thats the long and short of it, shiny or not, someone planned and executed a trap well...

It's a exploit of broken mechanic as game MECHANIC itself forbids you from taking any defense action!

James Arget for CSM 8! http://csm.fcftw.org 
Kashmyta
HC - gizmos Gizco
#47 - 2013-11-29 12:39:15 UTC
Khador Vess wrote:
BigSako wrote:

you also clearly dont understand how the mechanics work.

You can NOT probe the emergency warp OUT spot of somebody. Well you can, but it won't help you because the ship will just disappear (unless it logged out with aggression).

The spot to spawn in, is a completely different spot. The spot is being picked randomly at exactly 1 Million Kilometer from the log out spot (so in most cases for supercapitals, a POS). It will with certainty not be the same spot you disappeared after your emergency warp out.

Now in this case, titans and supers take (depending on fit and pilot skills) between 11 seconds and 40 seconds to be fully aligned to enter warp, which is more then enough time to probe and warp a bumping ship to it.

Battleships and below will literally align in 15 seconds, which is NOT enough time to be probed down and warped onto. So your statement "Someone lost a shiny ship and now suddenly its an exploit" is absolutely wrong, because noone has ever lost a NON shiny ship to this game mechanic (and I consider carriers, freighters and above as shinys).


To re-iterate what has been said: When you log in (and you didnt have aggression before), you can
NOT be warp scrambled
NOT be bubbled (you can, but you will just warp out of bubbles)
NOT cancel your warp
NOT jump to a cyno
NOT cloak
NOT defend yourself properly

I have tried this out like 2 years ago already, when I was fishing a titan, and I probed it down in time and fleet warped a dictor to it. The titan just warped out of the bubble - and done. As a matter of fact, this "mechanic" has been known long enough and many plans have been made to kill titans/supercarriers in exactly this way, and most of the time people did rise their opinion on how this is an exploit.
Another matter of fact: There has already been a case like this, when a supercarrier/titan was tackled and the aggressors were claiming an exploit when the super/titan warped out of the bubble.
This was even recorded and put on youtube, though I can't find that. There was a huge post and uproar about an exploit at that time.


I didn't fully understand the very first PART of this, thanks for clearing that up, i thought the two spots were the same, they are not however it still makes no difference though.

your ship is in space outside the pos, thats the mechanic of the e warp. Your ship gets killed because someone lays a trap, thats the long and short of it, shiny or not, someone planned and executed a trap well...


Again, you are missing the point, you are not supposed to be able to be tackled/bumped at the e-warp point, the mechanic is broken, and therefore use of the tactic an exploit.


Kristoffon Ellecon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2013-11-29 12:48:57 UTC
ITT: PL buttmad that it wasn't them that pulled this off and collected an epic amount of tears
Phi X
Starwinders
#49 - 2013-11-29 12:51:33 UTC
i havent seen one tear here over this and certenly not from the pilot loosing the titan
BigSako
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2013-11-29 12:59:03 UTC
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:
ITT: PL buttmad that it wasn't them that pulled this off and collected an epic amount of tears


Yeah, sure :P
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-11-29 13:06:14 UTC
BigSako wrote:


Battleships and below will literally align in 15 seconds, which is NOT enough time to be probed down and warped onto. So your statement "Someone lost a shiny ship and now suddenly its an exploit" is absolutely wrong, because noone has ever lost a NON shiny ship to this game mechanic (and I consider carriers, freighters and above as shinys).



When I was in TL and we were invaded by Polarized/N0MEX/etc they probed and killed an Orca who logged in after a safe logout. Shame our pilot never thought to see if it was petitionable... I believe he lost several bil.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#52 - 2013-11-29 13:07:43 UTC
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:
ITT: PL buttmad that it wasn't them that pulled this off and collected an epic amount of tears


We knew it was possible but collectively came to the conclusion that’s its bad and an exploit so never did it.
We might be mint flavoured Bastards with Vomit and raw sewage centres but even we have limits on what we will do.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-11-29 13:14:56 UTC
Props to CCP for making a sensible decision... for once.P

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

VLAD DRACU
State War Academy
Caldari State
#54 - 2013-11-29 13:17:37 UTC
Now lets see if CCP actually enforce their rules and ban the people who knew it was an exploit but still went for it.
Phoenus
Doomheim
#55 - 2013-11-29 13:37:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenus
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:
ITT: PL buttmad that it wasn't them that pulled this off and collected an epic amount of tears


Yes, I mean. It's totally not like we realised how retardedly broken the mechanic was, and petitioned CCP months ago prior to using it to check if it was allowed?

Blink
Kristoffon Ellecon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-11-29 13:48:21 UTC
Phoenus wrote:
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:
ITT: PL buttmad that it wasn't them that pulled this off and collected an epic amount of tears


Yes, I mean. It's totally not like we realised how retardedly broken the mechanic was, and petitioned CCP months ago prior to using it to check if it was allowed?

Blink

And look how many titan kills you got for it.
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2013-11-29 13:53:12 UTC
This is confusing to me

in battle common tactic for a titan to escape is to warp to a safe spot and warp off. With out an interdictor or heavy interdictor, bumping is the only way to stop them.

How am I to know when a pilot has logged off in a system of 200 people.
I am allowed to bump? How does this effect the issue about miners being bumped off of asteriod belts.
If I have a small gun on my ship and keep shooting the ship I am bumping increasing refreshing the Aggression timer, Then can I bump and not be punished.

As I understand Logoffski is no longer a valid tactic.

please describe a scenario where it is okay to bump and not okay to bump when a ship is about to warp off.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#58 - 2013-11-29 13:54:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tappits
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:
Phoenus wrote:

petitioned CCP months ago prior to using it to check if it was allowed?

And look how many titan kills you got for it.

Cannot disclose what GM’s said in petitions on the forums but it’s 99.99% of what CCP Dolan said in the 1st post.
Phi X
Starwinders
#59 - 2013-11-29 13:55:27 UTC
i agrees you are confused
Kashmyta
HC - gizmos Gizco
#60 - 2013-11-29 13:57:45 UTC
Gevlin wrote:
This is confusing to me

in battle common tactic for a titan to escape is to warp to a safe spot and warp off. With out an interdictor or heavy interdictor, bumping is the only way to stop them.

How am I to know when a pilot has logged off in a system of 200 people.
I am allowed to bump? How does this effect the issue about miners being bumped off of asteriod belts.
If I have a small gun on my ship and keep shooting the ship I am bumping increasing refreshing the Aggression timer, Then can I bump and not be punished.

As I understand Logoffski is no longer a valid tactic.

please describe a scenario where it is okay to bump and not okay to bump when a ship is about to warp off.


What you are talking about has nothing to do with this thread.