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Battleships???
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Digits Kho
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2013-11-28 21:05:03 UTC
realmen fly cruisers
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#102 - 2013-11-28 21:05:18 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
We can theory-craft this all day but its just a lot simpler to fit a heavy nuet, drain the inties, blow them up and leave...

You lose about 700dps overall from your mega gang but you gain the ability to skip all this crap.


It took me all of 5 second to think of moving away from each other to reduce angular velocity. Unless you are my tard FC yelling at me to stay stacked like a group of dumbass and even then I would still at least slowboat away. The whole fight would be done un under 2 mins with either dead inties or escaped inties. In both case the BS won the engagement.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#103 - 2013-11-28 21:05:21 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
We can theory-craft this all day but its just a lot simpler to fit a heavy nuet, drain the inties, blow them up and leave...

You lose about 700dps overall from your mega gang but you gain the ability to skip all this crap.


So now that we've established that gunfire from 5 megas is not feasible for 5 inties to survive under Roll
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#104 - 2013-11-28 21:07:16 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
We can theory-craft this all day but its just a lot simpler to fit a heavy nuet, drain the inties, blow them up and leave...

You lose about 700dps overall from your mega gang but you gain the ability to skip all this crap.

Edit: I didn't make this all up, I was a big fan of Garmon, read a lot of his stuff and a few other great battleship small gang / solo guys.


You don't fit a heavy neut onto the mega, you bring either a geddon or a BS with a utility slot.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#105 - 2013-11-28 21:07:39 UTC
Are the Megas actually chasing after the inties in your pic, like they're spreading out?

Oh god.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#106 - 2013-11-28 21:07:40 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
We can theory-craft this all day but its just a lot simpler to fit a heavy nuet, drain the inties, blow them up and leave...

You lose about 700dps overall from your mega gang but you gain the ability to skip all this crap.


So now that we've established that gunfire from 5 megas is not feasible for 5 inties to survive under Roll


Now I say we start over with vindis.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#107 - 2013-11-28 21:07:49 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
We can theory-craft this all day but its just a lot simpler to fit a heavy nuet, drain the inties, blow them up and leave...

You lose about 700dps overall from your mega gang but you gain the ability to skip all this crap.


It took me all of 5 second to think of moving away from each other to reduce angular velocity. Unless you are my tard FC yelling at me to stay stacked like a group of dumbass and even then I would still at least slowboat away. The whole fight would be done un under 2 mins with either dead inties or escaped inties. In both case the BS won the engagement.

I think I clearly showed that if you manually pilot you can orbit away from the mega's coming towards you without moving into or away from them. Think of it as a corkscrew orbit in the direction the mega is moving.

You're tactic doesn't do anything except separate the inties so they can't all shoot at one battleship, but it doesn't get them out of being tackled and held there permanantly.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#108 - 2013-11-28 21:08:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
This will perhaps explain what I'm trying to get across. The red circles are the megas, the blue the inties, the black the orbits of the inties, no matter how spread out the megas get the inties will win.

This is assuming manual experienced intie pilots and not nubs that press orbit.

Oh and yes I'm a fantastic artist I know.

Edit: the triangles are the megas, not sure what happened to my colors.

I don't really get it. What are the black squares?

Infinity Ziona wrote:
null loaded.

Null has a 25% tracking penalty.

Yeah sorry. The black diamonds, theres one red one for some reason, are the megas, the red circles are the inties, and the black large circles are their orbit.

Antimatter won't hit them at all. So its not really important.

When it comes to Megas and how to fit, and utilise them properly, I'll take Baltec1s word over yours any day of the week, he has both the experience and the street cred to speak authoritatively about them. You on the other hand.....

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2013-11-28 21:08:39 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Are the Megas actually chasing after the inties in your pic, like they're spreading out?

Yeah they are.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#110 - 2013-11-28 21:09:50 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Are the Megas actually chasing after the inties in your pic, like they're spreading out?

Yeah they are.

Why would they? Unless they're just making space for one of the megas to disengage, forcing one of the Crows to either back off or die.

Oh god.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#111 - 2013-11-28 21:10:20 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Are the Megas actually chasing after the inties in your pic, like they're spreading out?


Looks like it to me. If they were not moving and close together, the inties could keep an easyer orbit around them by just orbiting one of the 5 stacked BS. The Mega moving away from each other generate extra distance between them and any inties orbiting any other Mega.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#112 - 2013-11-28 21:14:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Frostys Virpio
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
We can theory-craft this all day but its just a lot simpler to fit a heavy nuet, drain the inties, blow them up and leave...

You lose about 700dps overall from your mega gang but you gain the ability to skip all this crap.


It took me all of 5 second to think of moving away from each other to reduce angular velocity. Unless you are my tard FC yelling at me to stay stacked like a group of dumbass and even then I would still at least slowboat away. The whole fight would be done un under 2 mins with either dead inties or escaped inties. In both case the BS won the engagement.

I think I clearly showed that if you manually pilot you can orbit away from the mega's coming towards you without moving into or away from them. Think of it as a corkscrew orbit in the direction the mega is moving.

You're tactic doesn't do anything except separate the inties so they can't all shoot at one battleship, but it doesn't get them out of being tackled and held there permanantly.


If you (intie1) are holding an orbit 10k away from me (mega 1) and my friend (mega 2) in his mega goes in the other direction 10k more, you are now 20k away from him. I (mega 1) will not be able to track you (intie 1) because you orbit is still to good for MY gun (mega 1) but HIS gun (mega 2) will start to track you (intie 1) and land hits. The guy (Intie 2) orbitting him (mega 2) will also have to move and in this way, get further away from MY (mega 1) gun so they can start tracking it (intie 2).
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2013-11-28 21:14:46 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
This will perhaps explain what I'm trying to get across. The red circles are the megas, the blue the inties, the black the orbits of the inties, no matter how spread out the megas get the inties will win.

This is assuming manual experienced intie pilots and not nubs that press orbit.

Oh and yes I'm a fantastic artist I know.

Edit: the triangles are the megas, not sure what happened to my colors.

I don't really get it. What are the black squares?

Infinity Ziona wrote:
null loaded.

Null has a 25% tracking penalty.

Yeah sorry. The black diamonds, theres one red one for some reason, are the megas, the red circles are the inties, and the black large circles are their orbit.

Antimatter won't hit them at all. So its not really important.

When it comes to Megas and how to fit, and utilise them properly, I'll take Baltec1s word over yours any day of the week, he has both the experience and the street cred to speak authoritatively about them. You on the other hand.....

That's completely fine with me. You can do what you like :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2013-11-28 21:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Infinity Ziona wrote:
This will perhaps explain what I'm trying to get across. The red circles are the megas, the blue the inties, the black the orbits of the inties, no matter how spread out the megas get the inties will win.

This is assuming manual experienced intie pilots and not nubs that press orbit.

Oh and yes I'm a fantastic artist I know.

Edit: the triangles are the megas, not sure what happened to my colors.



This situation where your extremely experienced interceptor pilots are getting their every move perfect... how often is this going to occur? And I don't get what you're saying, are you trying to use this very rare situation is the evidence that battleships are completely useless?

Or, are you saying that because battleships aren't useful in EVERY situation, they are completely useless? Because that would be a nirvana fallacy.

Additionally... how much damage are those 'ceptors going to do from long-point range on a properly tanked battleship? How long is it going to take? How much time and opportunity do the battleship pilots have to call in some 'ceptor support of their own to counter? Because given that this situation goes down flawlessly, let's say for arguments sake that the battleships will never land a hit, the 'ceptors are never going to do any damage to the battleships, not unless they focus on just one, and that gives the other battleships freedom of movement.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#115 - 2013-11-28 21:29:48 UTC
oh lol, I looked at your pic. Surely you've tried this orbiting your drones, and surely you've seen what happens when your orbit gets edge on to NPCs ?

You can't stop the megas getting edge on, because they'll spread in 3 dimensions. Nothing doing, one of those megas will get edge on to 1 inties orbit and then its done for. You've even got them drawn as is in such a way that most of the inties have an edge on mega.

Also you can't keep doing a click in space orbit without it losing speed, or without the orbit being loose, if the orbit is loose you'll wind up travelling edge on for a long time.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2013-11-28 21:49:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Tauranon wrote:
oh lol, I looked at your pic. Surely you've tried this orbiting your drones, and surely you've seen what happens when your orbit gets edge on to NPCs ?

You can't stop the megas getting edge on, because they'll spread in 3 dimensions. Nothing doing, one of those megas will get edge on to 1 inties orbit and then its done for. You've even got them drawn as is in such a way that most of the inties have an edge on mega.

Also you can't keep doing a click in space orbit without it losing speed, or without the orbit being loose, if the orbit is loose you'll wind up travelling edge on for a long time.

I have done this quite a few times. I was a high sec war deccer for most of my EvE career and have always solo'd so I usually had multiple ships chasing me.

I have used this to kill people while keeping range from their little blobs and transversal / angular velocity up. The only thing that messes it up is where you have a fast ship in the mix. But with 5 megas I could do it all day no problems.

Edit: btw its not possible to do it while orbiting your drones (if you mean sentries) you're orbiting a point that's moving at the same speed as the approaching ship.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#117 - 2013-11-28 22:15:53 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
you're orbiting a point that's moving at the same speed as the approaching ship.

So you're kind of spiralling away from them. How far away from them is the point you orbit, and how wide is the radius of your orbit?

Oh god.
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
#118 - 2013-11-28 22:32:33 UTC
I have to agree with you to some extent OP.

Battleships are still good, but the warp changes were a bit much.
Hi.
Garandras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2013-11-28 23:03:01 UTC
Battleships are still used in largefleet engagements..

goons are packing Domis..

N3 still using Mealstroms

Stainwgon pulls out Rhoks/Meals with the occasional Typhoon fleet..
Roark BleedBlue
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2013-11-28 23:44:20 UTC
This thread makes me both really want to, and never ever ever want to, get into PVP. The arguments made from both sides make PVP seem like Rock Paper Scissors, with each competitor having 60 hands to use. And that's just awesome/terrrible.