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Battleships???
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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2013-11-28 19:52:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lets say you go on a roam with 5 mega, you run into 5 crows, with only blasters and unbonused warriors you're all going to die.

I don't know, I'd say a Crow with 5-10 webs on it is probably going to die pretty fast.

I'd say a crow that allowed itself to get in range of a buffer fit mega's web is a stupid crow.

Edit: Also after Prop mod, point, web and cap injector where are you going to fit the extra webber?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-11-28 19:55:21 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lets say you go on a roam with 5 mega, you run into 5 crows, with only blasters and unbonused warriors you're all going to die.

I don't know, I'd say a Crow with 5-10 webs on it is probably going to die pretty fast.

I'd say a crow that allowed itself to get in range of a buffer fit mega's web is a stupid crow.


Those mega are totally bolted down in sapce and can;t get away from each other to prevent an orbit around of of them from being an orbit around all of them. I didn`t tknow about this mechanic. Good thing I still accept to learn things...
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#63 - 2013-11-28 19:57:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I'd say a crow that allowed itself to get in range of a buffer fit mega's web is a stupid crow.

Ah, so they're buffer fit now. Because 5 man gangs without logi prefer not to use reps?

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Also after Prop mod, point, web and cap injector where are you going to fit the extra webber?

Doesn't matter. Webs only stack up to 5 anyway.

Oh god.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-11-28 19:57:44 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

What you are trying to do is analogous to entering a VW Beetle in a race and then claiming its a viable racing car because your team won - ignoring the abilities of the other team members vehicles which may have contributed 100% to the victory.


As a motoring enthusiast, I don't appreciate the implication that the VW Beetle is not a viable race car.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2013-11-28 19:58:24 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lets say you go on a roam with 5 mega, you run into 5 crows, with only blasters and unbonused warriors you're all going to die.

I don't know, I'd say a Crow with 5-10 webs on it is probably going to die pretty fast.

I'd say a crow that allowed itself to get in range of a buffer fit mega's web is a stupid crow.


Those mega are totally bolted down in sapce and can;t get away from each other to prevent an orbit around of of them from being an orbit around all of them. I didn`t tknow about this mechanic. Good thing I still accept to learn things...

Have you ever tried to hit a interceptor with large blasters? You should try it sometimes. A good intie pilot is never going to let itself be webbed, if the mega's spread out the inties can do the same. You can argue all you like that there is something the mega's can do but I'd say whatever they do, given equally skilled pilots the inties can counter.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2013-11-28 20:00:09 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

What you are trying to do is analogous to entering a VW Beetle in a race and then claiming its a viable racing car because your team won - ignoring the abilities of the other team members vehicles which may have contributed 100% to the victory.


As a motoring enthusiast, I don't appreciate the implication that the VW Beetle is not a viable race car.

And you would be right, which is exactly my point. They can be, just not if you throw in a bunch of other cars with other abilities and strengths. You cannot make an accurate comparison in that case.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#67 - 2013-11-28 20:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lets say you go on a roam with 5 mega, you run into 5 crows, with only blasters and unbonused warriors you're all going to die.

I don't know, I'd say a Crow with 5-10 webs on it is probably going to die pretty fast.

I'd say a crow that allowed itself to get in range of a buffer fit mega's web is a stupid crow.


Those mega are totally bolted down in sapce and can;t get away from each other to prevent an orbit around of of them from being an orbit around all of them. I didn`t tknow about this mechanic. Good thing I still accept to learn things...

Have you ever tried to hit a interceptor with large blasters? You should try it sometimes. A good intie pilot is never going to let itself be webbed, if the mega's spread out the inties can do the same. You can argue all you like that there is something the mega's can do but I'd say whatever they do, given equally skilled pilots the inties can counter.


Sure, a couple of the megas can drop yurts and refit a neut. Hell these days they can drop a yurt and fit 6 small rails and 3 nav comps if they want.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#68 - 2013-11-28 20:03:01 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
if the mega's spread out the inties can do the same.

And then they'll die.

Oh god.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-11-28 20:03:23 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lets say you go on a roam with 5 mega, you run into 5 crows, with only blasters and unbonused warriors you're all going to die.

I don't know, I'd say a Crow with 5-10 webs on it is probably going to die pretty fast.

I'd say a crow that allowed itself to get in range of a buffer fit mega's web is a stupid crow.


Those mega are totally bolted down in sapce and can;t get away from each other to prevent an orbit around of of them from being an orbit around all of them. I didn`t tknow about this mechanic. Good thing I still accept to learn things...

Have you ever tried to hit a interceptor with large blasters? You should try it sometimes. A good intie pilot is never going to let itself be webbed, if the mega's spread out the inties can do the same. You can argue all you like that there is something the mega's can do but I'd say whatever they do, given equally skilled pilots the inties can counter.


If the 5 inties all go on a different mega, they will still be burther away from the other mega thus allowing the tracking to radial velocity gap to be reduced allowing hits to be scored. It`s not like you need full dps from 5 mega to take down an intie...
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-11-28 20:03:38 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I'd say a crow that allowed itself to get in range of a buffer fit mega's web is a stupid crow.

Ah, so they're buffer fit now. Because 5 man gangs without logi prefer not to use reps?

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Also after Prop mod, point, web and cap injector where are you going to fit the extra webber?

Doesn't matter. Webs only stack up to 5 anyway.

They could be nano'd and fit with polycarbs if you like. You can fit a AAR if you like too. Still going to die.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#71 - 2013-11-28 20:05:44 UTC
Tauranon wrote:


Sure, a couple of the megas can drop yurts and refit a neut. Hell these days they can drop a yurt and fit 6 small rails and 3 nav comps if they want.


Or bring a single blaster kronos with 2x tracking computers and sit at around 60km from the cepters while your own frigates grab webs.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2013-11-28 20:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

What you are trying to do is analogous to entering a VW Beetle in a race and then claiming its a viable racing car because your team won - ignoring the abilities of the other team members vehicles which may have contributed 100% to the victory.


As a motoring enthusiast, I don't appreciate the implication that the VW Beetle is not a viable race car.

And you would be right, which is exactly my point. They can be, just not if you throw in a bunch of other cars with other abilities and strengths. You cannot make an accurate comparison in that case.


What are you talking about?

Seriously

hard to tell, but VW wins this one as well

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2013-11-28 20:06:58 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

If the 5 inties all go on a different mega, they will still be burther away from the other mega thus allowing the tracking to radial velocity gap to be reduced allowing hits to be scored. It`s not like you need full dps from 5 mega to take down an intie...

What you do need is better than complete misses though... which is all you're going to get trying to shoot inties with large blasters.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#74 - 2013-11-28 20:12:53 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

If the 5 inties all go on a different mega, they will still be burther away from the other mega thus allowing the tracking to radial velocity gap to be reduced allowing hits to be scored. It`s not like you need full dps from 5 mega to take down an intie...

What you do need is better than complete misses though... which is all you're going to get trying to shoot inties with large blasters.


Not as big an issue hitting frigates as many think. Biggest problem I have is not being able to lock them before they get killed by something else.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-11-28 20:13:05 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

If the 5 inties all go on a different mega, they will still be burther away from the other mega thus allowing the tracking to radial velocity gap to be reduced allowing hits to be scored. It`s not like you need full dps from 5 mega to take down an intie...

What you do need is better than complete misses though... which is all you're going to get trying to shoot inties with large blasters.


It will stop missing once the damn things are orbiting another ship 20+ km away. Your argument would hold more weight if you didn;t introduce a 5v5 variable. Since you did, the fight is essentially in the hand of the Mega unless the Intie decide they had enough and leave the field.

1- The 5 mega all slowboat or MWD in 5 different direction.
2- The inties orbit will follow thier target and getting further away from thier non targetted Mega.
3- The extra range between the mega and any of the intie not orbiting him point of orbit will meant they are slowly but surely losing more and more radial advantage over the large guns.
4- At some point, the large gun will start oversomeing even if only slightly the turning of the far away inties.
5- Some damage will be applied
6- Inties start going boom.

Counter move for the intiesÉ

1- Disengage.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2013-11-28 20:13:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
baltec1 wrote:
Tauranon wrote:


Sure, a couple of the megas can drop yurts and refit a neut. Hell these days they can drop a yurt and fit 6 small rails and 3 nav comps if they want.


Or bring a single blaster kronos with 2x tracking computers and sit at around 60km from the cepters while your own frigates grab webs.

This is exactly what I mean. You guys spend so much time sitting in groups of people you actually have very little knowledge of what your ship can and cannot do individually.

You're solutions are almost always, moar people! Well unfortunately that doesn't help you understand your ship, it just masks its deficiencies.

To sum up the replies in this thread:

Battleships are totally fine because we can get someone else in fleet to neut, web, scram, snipe or whatever it is that your ship cannot do for you.

That totally defeats the purpose of assessing whether a ship in itself, is okay or not.


Frostys Virpio wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

If the 5 inties all go on a different mega, they will still be burther away from the other mega thus allowing the tracking to radial velocity gap to be reduced allowing hits to be scored. It`s not like you need full dps from 5 mega to take down an intie...

What you do need is better than complete misses though... which is all you're going to get trying to shoot inties with large blasters.


It will stop missing once the damn things are orbiting another ship 20+ km away. Your argument would hold more weight if you didn;t introduce a 5v5 variable. Since you did, the fight is essentially in the hand of the Mega unless the Intie decide they had enough and leave the field.

1- The 5 mega all slowboat or MWD in 5 different direction.
2- The inties orbit will follow thier target and getting further away from thier non targetted Mega.
3- The extra range between the mega and any of the intie not orbiting him point of orbit will meant they are slowly but surely losing more and more radial advantage over the large guns.
4- At some point, the large gun will start oversomeing even if only slightly the turning of the far away inties.
5- Some damage will be applied
6- Inties start going boom.

Counter move for the intiesÉ

1- Disengage.

Okay I'll give you at some point, they might start to hit slightly. However had you actually fitted 1 neut, you would have 5 killmails, not 5 missing inties and red faces.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#77 - 2013-11-28 20:18:43 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Okay I'll give you at some point, they might start to hit slightly.

Then you also understand that at some point, those inties are going to be in web and scram range, and when that happens, they're going to die.

Oh god.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#78 - 2013-11-28 20:18:49 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

This is exactly what I mean. You guys spend so much time sitting in groups of people you actually have very little knowledge of what your ship can and cannot do individually.

You're solutions are almost always, moar people! Well unfortunately that doesn't help you understand your ship, it just masks its deficiencies.

To sum up the replies in this thread:

Battleships are totally fine because we can get someone else in fleet to neut, web, scram, snipe or whatever it is that your ship cannot do for you.

That totally defeats the purpose of assessing whether a ship in itself, is okay or not.

I


You are the one who said 5 v 5.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-11-28 20:22:10 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Okay I'll give you at some point, they might start to hit slightly. However had you actually fitted 1 neut, you would have 5 killmails, not 5 missing inties and red faces.


If you outlast your enemies and hold the field when they have to flee, aren't you winning?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2013-11-28 20:27:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Okay I'll give you at some point, they might start to hit slightly.

Then you also understand that at some point, those inties are going to be in web and scram range, and when that happens, they're going to die.

Actually I was wrong, I fed the mega and crow into EFT's dps calculator, at all ranges out to optimal + falloff x 2 the megas are hitting for 0. Check it out yourself.

Edit: also maybe true if you're hitting orbit, but if you're manually piloting no they won't.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)