Wormholes

If you says...that ehp is important....i used to fly crapy celestis sensor damp with close to no tank during fountain war and i say they were pretty damn effective since u could've damped at 100 k range well outside dps ship targeting range and that range was a million times better defense then the ehp amount.

In null sec recons are at the top of food chain for ewar support,with loki being used somewhat in armor fleets because minmatar recons don`t really have a good armor tank(maybe they`ll fix that when they take a crack at recons) and having shield/armor fleet mixed up is a really bad idea.
In large fleets most ewar comes from webs/points and sensor damps. which recons are far superior to t3,and there's no t3 with sensor damps.
Alpha battleship fleets use recons as ewar support mainly because...well the t3 don`t have the range to support that long range fights.
As ecm boats tengu subsytem give 50% ecm strength at sub lvl 5 compared to 150% for the falcon.Hell man that's even worse then the blackbird that gets 75% ecm strength.How can u claim that the t3 is overpowered when even a 5 million t1 crusier can surpass the t3 in both range and strength?
From a ship role point of view t3s work as intended, being subpar to thier t2 counterparts.
As a final point what exactly do you want nerfed on t3s? as ewar they are way weaker then their t2 counterparts. As dps platforms they are good but hacs are better and way more mobile(cerberus better range and mobility then tengu, deimos better range and speed then proteus,theres no point comparing with the ishtar, munnin way better artillery platform then loki, vagabond better AC platform then loki, the amarr ones are a little to close this might need some rework).So from a role point of view hacs are better then t3 at their role , which is a high damage high mobility cruiser designed to counter larger ships.
So far the only "problem" if this is an actual problem is only the fact that t3s have a huge buffer tank which might mean something in small engagements but in large fights doesn't really matter when u have enough alpha on field to 1 volley most of the ships.
If you would`ve done some research you would've seen your so called overpowered 300k ehp proteuss/legion/loki/tengu getting decimated by domi fleets.
So please state your arguments about t3 being over power beyond the small niche that is wormhole pvp because my understanding of an over powered ship is that it out perform anything else in every situation not just in only 1 situation.

I already did, but I guess your reading comprehension has proved to be subpar.



And it is op in general in wh space, and not one situation, that is the essence of the problem, in wormholes it seems they are the go to ship for everything combat related except logi, even it seems some things that aren't combat related (but those don't affect the balance that much). A whole part of EVE that has its own mechanics is not considered "niche pvp" or "one situation". If a ship is only OP in null such as the domi's you mentioned, and not OP in other areas of space does not mean the ship does not need fixing.

And what do I have to prove that they are OP? Simply the numbers. Not my feelings, not my biases, not what I have personally "seen" or "flown", just the raw usage numbers. As I said before, the usage numbers prove that t3's in wormholes are OP. Now instead of trying to stop the inevitable flood maybe we should try building some rafts and boats. What I mean is instead of trying to stop the inevitable change of t3's, let us maybe give some feedback on how we would like them to change.

The real problem as mentioned in the quote above, is the relative power to mass ratio. You solve that ratio, and the imbalance should be resolved, but of course that is only my opinion.

you clearly don't understand what specialized means. that's ok, i'll try 1 more time.

obviously tank is relevant when looking at how generally useful a ship is.
but when looking at the specific job of ewar, jam ability for example, it has no baring.

EG: if a falcon has 12 strength jammers at 50km with 30k EHP, the chance of it jamming someone will be the same as if it somehow had 1 mil ehp.
(see how im looking at only 1 specialized aspect of the ship?)

as for why people fly T3s over the way more specialized T2s?
well, because it WHs you have very limited resources so you bring the most generally (there's that word again) useful ship since you can't afford to bring 3 ships that will each do their specialized roll better.

specifically, resilience is a lot more important in wspace since if you die you can generally not go reship very fast so staying alive under reps is more important than bringing the best possible utility ships.
that said, falcons are still extremely common in WHs (way more than jam tengus), as are bhaalgorns for neuts and I've even been seeing a significant rise in T2 damp ships being used of late.

The only even remotely valid argument that can be made is that T3s are used more than T2s for dps/tank roles.
well, sure. they also cost a butt ton more, carry the most severe penalties on death of any ship in eve and in many cases offer marginal, at best, benefits.
(legion for example is only very slightly better than a zealot and in most cases strictly worse than an absolution.)

people, yourself included aparently, seem to see T3s as these do all god mode pimp mobiles than can gang anything and tank anything all while jamming it, neuting it and webbing it AND being covops fit and nullified!
yeah, there are MANY roles a T3 can fill but in all honesty, theyre quite poor at doing more than 1 thing at a time.

Except that is a cruiser, not a battlecruiser hull.

The meat grinder is certainly the primary factor in WHY wormhole fleets are the way they are.

But increasing spawn radius would certainly make crushing wormholes more interesting :D You wouldn't be able to 1 punch a hole with a dread and orca without some serious slowboating. Unless they increase jump range too.

EDIT: Actually, it's really the mass limitation combined with the meat grinder. T3's are both tanky, and small.

I'd consider that a benefit, since it makes crashing holes that much riskier, i.e. more potential content.

If they adjusted the mass on the wormholes to allow say 20 battleships to jump there and back without stranding everyone else things might be a bit different. The protocol for rolling a hole would vary a little bit, but its nothing a decent group of wormholers couldnt figure out pretty quick.