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T3 Nerf coming soon (tm)
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Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#41 - 2013-11-30 23:17:10 UTC
I Think the webs goes up to 50 with boosts

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#42 - 2013-12-01 00:08:44 UTC
Radhe Amatin wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:
Sandslinger wrote:
QT McWhiskers wrote:
I'm no too worried. Command ships have around the same dps, little less tank, bigger sig size, for less than half the price. If they do nerf T3s to be about on par with the astarte or absolution then I will simply switch. Mass increase is negligible and speed lost is also negligible. Should be fun.


Thanks for illustrating the argument I've been making for a year that if they nerf T3 everyone will just switch to command ships and wh fights will continue as they always have been.




So the meta is bad and you don't think things should change because the solution won't change anything?

Yes if t3's change then the players will use command ships. But at least command ships can't neut, can't jam, can't 50km web, and can't 75km point. And if command ships becomes the op meta then they be should rebalanced too. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Wh space has the best pvp mechanics in eve, and the sad fact is, the pvp in it right now is stale at best. It is just a few fixes away from being epic, but you are too afraid of change because you think that won't change anything. Well if you are right ,at worst everyone will be using command ships,which isn't much different than everyone using t3's now.

really 50 km webs and 75 points...where the hell do you pull this numbers.
loki with max skills and federation navy = 35 km range
Proteus with republic fleet warp disruptor = 45 km range
And so you do understand that when they revisit stats on ships they will look at the ships stats not your fleet booster. Hell not even with a command ship maxed skilled u can pull the ranges u mentioned on a t3.
Nerfing ship to the brink is not a solution if they nerf t3s people will fly command ships, and you carebears will scream bloody murder again and they`ll nerf command ships to and players will start using another ship and the hole cycle starts again.


yes take 1b ships without boosts. With boosts the numbers I mentioned are easily attainable.

So you at least agree that things aren't too good right now, but you don't want to try to fix it because people will use "other ships and the cycle will start over again"? The stats prove that the usage numbers of t3's are way out of line with the other ships that are used in wormholes (especially in serious fights), and this needs fixing.

I am not saying a nerf is a solution, but things needs to start changing, or we will always have the same stale meta. "Oh guys we have some activity in the hole, get your t3's out" is the common mentality in wh nowadays, there is little room for creativity other than getting different numbers of ewar (which are also t3's) or dps to logi ratio. The meta needs to be more vibrant and the quality of the fights needs to improve. And please dont start with that you can get creative with the fittings because at the end of the day that is very limited. We have more than one ship class in EVE and currently only 1 is being utilized (and 2 logi ships).

what is the point of the fights, if all the fights are all the same??
Bubba Zennedi
Legion Of Mad Cats
Azgoths of Kria
#43 - 2013-12-01 01:33:37 UTC
Sandslinger wrote:
QT McWhiskers wrote:
I'm no too worried. Command ships have around the same dps, little less tank, bigger sig size, for less than half the price. If they do nerf T3s to be about on par with the astarte or absolution then I will simply switch. Mass increase is negligible and speed lost is also negligible. Should be fun.


Thanks for illustrating the argument I've been making for a year that if they nerf T3 everyone will just switch to command ships and wh fights will continue as they always have been.





Command can't be made to fly cloaked and aren't good with probes.
T3= cruiser= low mass= fits good with wh mass.
People QQing about T3's are people who wont use them.
Their price is the tradeoff.
ChrisLCTR
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#44 - 2013-12-01 01:35:07 UTC
People are going to use the most powerful ship platforms they can to win engagements. Eventually, any fleet comp will be stale.
Radhe Amatin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-12-01 08:08:17 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:
Radhe Amatin wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:
Sandslinger wrote:
QT McWhiskers wrote:
I'm no too worried. Command ships have around the same dps, little less tank, bigger sig size, for less than half the price. If they do nerf T3s to be about on par with the astarte or absolution then I will simply switch. Mass increase is negligible and speed lost is also negligible. Should be fun.


Thanks for illustrating the argument I've been making for a year that if they nerf T3 everyone will just switch to command ships and wh fights will continue as they always have been.




So the meta is bad and you don't think things should change because the solution won't change anything?

Yes if t3's change then the players will use command ships. But at least command ships can't neut, can't jam, can't 50km web, and can't 75km point. And if command ships becomes the op meta then they be should rebalanced too. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Wh space has the best pvp mechanics in eve, and the sad fact is, the pvp in it right now is stale at best. It is just a few fixes away from being epic, but you are too afraid of change because you think that won't change anything. Well if you are right ,at worst everyone will be using command ships,which isn't much different than everyone using t3's now.

really 50 km webs and 75 points...where the hell do you pull this numbers.
loki with max skills and federation navy = 35 km range
Proteus with republic fleet warp disruptor = 45 km range
And so you do understand that when they revisit stats on ships they will look at the ships stats not your fleet booster. Hell not even with a command ship maxed skilled u can pull the ranges u mentioned on a t3.
Nerfing ship to the brink is not a solution if they nerf t3s people will fly command ships, and you carebears will scream bloody murder again and they`ll nerf command ships to and players will start using another ship and the hole cycle starts again.


yes take 1b ships without boosts. With boosts the numbers I mentioned are easily attainable.

So you at least agree that things aren't too good right now, but you don't want to try to fix it because people will use "other ships and the cycle will start over again"? The stats prove that the usage numbers of t3's are way out of line with the other ships that are used in wormholes (especially in serious fights), and this needs fixing.

I am not saying a nerf is a solution, but things needs to start changing, or we will always have the same stale meta. "Oh guys we have some activity in the hole, get your t3's out" is the common mentality in wh nowadays, there is little room for creativity other than getting different numbers of ewar (which are also t3's) or dps to logi ratio. The meta needs to be more vibrant and the quality of the fights needs to improve. And please dont start with that you can get creative with the fittings because at the end of the day that is very limited. We have more than one ship class in EVE and currently only 1 is being utilized (and 2 logi ships).

what is the point of the fights, if all the fights are all the same??

even with a command ship as a fleet booster with max skills u can't get 50 km range on loki webs unless u are using a officer web. best u can get is 47 with a command ship bonus and a republic fleet midlink and on the proteus is 60 km point with republic fleet and boosts and midlink. Saying u can easily get those ranges is stupid.
Besides why are we talking about ranges with boosters what is important is the ship bonuses itself because thats whats matters when they are looking to rebalance stuff.
Those ranges are way below recon ships so at those ecm support roles recons will always be better.
Perhaps the only rebalance they can make on t3 is to buff those subs systems that ppl don`t use because their counter part outperforms them by a long margin and to nerf the buffer tank subsystems so they can`t get 200k ehp.
Radhe Amatin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-12-01 08:17:52 UTC
And even if they nerf t3 to the brink the meta will not change because the people will start using another ship, and if that works everyone will fly that and we will end up with the same problem we have now, That people only some ships(today is t3s tommorow will be command ships , and the next day will be hacs).
Besides where did u get that everyone is flying t3 for ecm support in wormholes.I`ve seen a lot of people flying falcons/arazu/rapiers in wormholes for those roles even in null sec a recon is the first choice for ecm support.
I fly a falcon and i`ll chose a falcon for jamming every time because its so much better then a ecm tengu.
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#47 - 2013-12-01 10:13:56 UTC
Radhe Amatin wrote:
And even if they nerf t3 to the brink the meta will not change because the people will start using another ship, and if that works everyone will fly that and we will end up with the same problem we have now, That people only some ships(today is t3s tommorow will be command ships , and the next day will be hacs).
Besides where did u get that everyone is flying t3 for ecm support in wormholes.I`ve seen a lot of people flying falcons/arazu/rapiers in wormholes for those roles even in null sec a recon is the first choice for ecm support.
I fly a falcon and i`ll chose a falcon for jamming every time because its so much better then a ecm tengu.



It is not what you choose, it is what everyone chooses. Why is it in null, the land of blobs, that the meta is much more vibrant than the one we have in wormholes. Every alliance has many different doctrines and you see all kinds of ships through different ships classes. In wormholes where the elite PVP is supposed to be, t3's trump everything, and the main argument that most dissenters use is if you change t3's, then the wh community will just use another ship as their trump card ie command ships. I concur that changing t3's won't improve much, but we have to start making changes now, one at a time till we get where is needed. If you all are right (I repeat this point) then the worst that can happen is we all start using command ships, which is not very much different than it is now.

Let's stop holding back and try to make what wormhole pvp is supposed to be, hopefully not the odd 20-30 man t3 gang with guardian support and the occasional dread and archon fighting each other.
Radhe Amatin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2013-12-01 11:43:24 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:
Radhe Amatin wrote:
And even if they nerf t3 to the brink the meta will not change because the people will start using another ship, and if that works everyone will fly that and we will end up with the same problem we have now, That people only some ships(today is t3s tommorow will be command ships , and the next day will be hacs).
Besides where did u get that everyone is flying t3 for ecm support in wormholes.I`ve seen a lot of people flying falcons/arazu/rapiers in wormholes for those roles even in null sec a recon is the first choice for ecm support.
I fly a falcon and i`ll chose a falcon for jamming every time because its so much better then a ecm tengu.



It is not what you choose, it is what everyone chooses. Why is it in null, the land of blobs, that the meta is much more vibrant than the one we have in wormholes. Every alliance has many different doctrines and you see all kinds of ships through different ships classes. In wormholes where the elite PVP is supposed to be, t3's trump everything, and the main argument that most dissenters use is if you change t3's, then the wh community will just use another ship as their trump card ie command ships. I concur that changing t3's won't improve much, but we have to start making changes now, one at a time till we get where is needed. If you all are right (I repeat this point) then the worst that can happen is we all start using command ships, which is not very much different than it is now.

Let's stop holding back and try to make what wormhole pvp is supposed to be, hopefully not the odd 20-30 man t3 gang with guardian support and the occasional dread and archon fighting each other.


Alliances have different doctrines because of many circumstances, like what space they hold for example if u live in guristas space ppl will have more skills trained in hybrids and missiles and the ships that use them and the doctrines are build somewhat around that because players already have those skills trained.
Wh people use t3s mostly not because its the best ship in game its because they trained for that to live there and it offers a multirole ship without having to many hulls.
In wormholes you don't have stations where you can park your ships so having a tone of doctrine ships its a pain to mange because you have to leave them hanging in space at a pos and risk losing them if the pos get blown up .
T3s are excellent for small fleet and solo wh pve because up to some point they do not need logistic support and u have an option now to switch to pvp to defend.
Third thing null sec have doctrines because they have numbers, a bs or hac or bc doctrine will not work if you don`t have a specific amount of dps ships, logistics, support.In wh most of the day to day pvp are small to medium engagements a set of circumstances where a set doctrine will get you whelped.
Fourth most wh pvp goes around the anomalies so when u go tackle and kill someone there you need a ship that can tank sleepers as well because there's the chance that the sleepers will attack you once u engage the other player/s. Bcs to slow for that job t1/t2 cruisers to weak frigates u`ll probably get insta poped so that leaves t3s which were design mainly for wh use and t3s.
And final if you don`t like what wormhole peeps are flying don't go live in a wh go live in null if u like more diversity or low sec.
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#49 - 2013-12-01 12:15:45 UTC
Radhe Amatin wrote:

Alliances have different doctrines because of many circumstances, like what space they hold for example if u live in guristas space ppl will have more skills trained in hybrids and missiles and the ships that use them and the doctrines are build somewhat around that because players already have those skills trained.
Wh people use t3s mostly not because its the best ship in game its because they trained for that to live there and it offers a multirole ship without having to many hulls.
In wormholes you don't have stations where you can park your ships so having a tone of doctrine ships its a pain to mange because you have to leave them hanging in space at a pos and risk losing them if the pos get blown up .
T3s are excellent for small fleet and solo wh pve because up to some point they do not need logistic support and u have an option now to switch to pvp to defend.
Third thing null sec have doctrines because they have numbers, a bs or hac or bc doctrine will not work if you don`t have a specific amount of dps ships, logistics, support.In wh most of the day to day pvp are small to medium engagements a set of circumstances where a set doctrine will get you whelped.
Fourth most wh pvp goes around the anomalies so when u go tackle and kill someone there you need a ship that can tank sleepers as well because there's the chance that the sleepers will attack you once u engage the other player/s. Bcs to slow for that job t1/t2 cruisers to weak frigates u`ll probably get insta poped so that leaves t3s which were design mainly for wh use and t3s.
And final if you don`t like what wormhole peeps are flying don't go live in a wh go live in null if u like more diversity or low sec.



1- So you are telling me null sec alliances fly the same ships they use for pve in pvp? you are telling me nullsec theory crafters base their pvp doctrines on what their carebears fly? How disconnected are you? And if the same argument applies to wormholes, who the hell does pve (in high class wormholes) in t3's?

2-Even if wh dont have stations, they have sma's, and any semi respectable wormholer has over 25 ships in his sma. If you don't you are doing something terribly wrong

3- Yes null sec has numbers but if they fly with 50 man or 1000 man gang they fly with a single ship type, 500 tengus, 1000 megas, 150 harpies etc.. Wormholes have lower numbers but they have more diversity in the fleet comp, but it is diverse in only a very limited class, which is t3's, and logi support.

4- And most real wh pvp happens on the holes and not in anamolies. When pvp occurs in anomalies it is usually a gank.

5- So if I want the state of wormholes to become better I have to get out? Nice logic. As I said before in my opinion wh mechanics are the best environment for quality pvp, and it is just a few things holding it back. What I'd like to see is more diversity in fights, more comps and more ingenuity. Right now the only ingenuity applied is either to fit a painter or dampner on your legion (or something on that scale). I am not saying there is no more creativity or diversity in comps and fights in wh space, but it is so much lower than I'd like it or has the potential to be.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#50 - 2013-12-01 20:12:37 UTC
Kalel Nimrott wrote:
I Think the webs goes up to 50 with boosts


A Rapier with boosts can get to 100km, for ease of comparison it's best to just leave them out of the equation.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Radhe Amatin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-12-01 20:38:19 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:
Radhe Amatin wrote:

Alliances have different doctrines because of many circumstances, like what space they hold for example if u live in guristas space ppl will have more skills trained in hybrids and missiles and the ships that use them and the doctrines are build somewhat around that because players already have those skills trained.
Wh people use t3s mostly not because its the best ship in game its because they trained for that to live there and it offers a multirole ship without having to many hulls.
In wormholes you don't have stations where you can park your ships so having a tone of doctrine ships its a pain to mange because you have to leave them hanging in space at a pos and risk losing them if the pos get blown up .
T3s are excellent for small fleet and solo wh pve because up to some point they do not need logistic support and u have an option now to switch to pvp to defend.
Third thing null sec have doctrines because they have numbers, a bs or hac or bc doctrine will not work if you don`t have a specific amount of dps ships, logistics, support.In wh most of the day to day pvp are small to medium engagements a set of circumstances where a set doctrine will get you whelped.
Fourth most wh pvp goes around the anomalies so when u go tackle and kill someone there you need a ship that can tank sleepers as well because there's the chance that the sleepers will attack you once u engage the other player/s. Bcs to slow for that job t1/t2 cruisers to weak frigates u`ll probably get insta poped so that leaves t3s which were design mainly for wh use and t3s.
And final if you don`t like what wormhole peeps are flying don't go live in a wh go live in null if u like more diversity or low sec.



1- So you are telling me null sec alliances fly the same ships they use for pve in pvp? you are telling me nullsec theory crafters base their pvp doctrines on what their carebears fly? How disconnected are you? And if the same argument applies to wormholes, who the hell does pve (in high class wormholes) in t3's?

2-Even if wh dont have stations, they have sma's, and any semi respectable wormholer has over 25 ships in his sma. If you don't you are doing something terribly wrong

3- Yes null sec has numbers but if they fly with 50 man or 1000 man gang they fly with a single ship type, 500 tengus, 1000 megas, 150 harpies etc.. Wormholes have lower numbers but they have more diversity in the fleet comp, but it is diverse in only a very limited class, which is t3's, and logi support.

4- And most real wh pvp happens on the holes and not in anamolies. When pvp occurs in anomalies it is usually a gank.

5- So if I want the state of wormholes to become better I have to get out? Nice logic. As I said before in my opinion wh mechanics are the best environment for quality pvp, and it is just a few things holding it back. What I'd like to see is more diversity in fights, more comps and more ingenuity. Right now the only ingenuity applied is either to fit a painter or dampner on your legion (or something on that scale). I am not saying there is no more creativity or diversity in comps and fights in wh space, but it is so much lower than I'd like it or has the potential to be.



so far i haven`t heard an argument about nerfing t3s from you besides your own personal preference of what other players should fly.
I can fly t3s tengu and loki, but i hardly use them for pvp and thats not because of the cost or skill point loss i don`t use them because i find other ship far more better.The fact that they have some big buffer tank doesn't make them the best pvp ship in game it just make them one slow big tank ship that can be our ranged and out dps by other ships.
from what i gathered you live in wormhole space that being said you should know the there's much more to pvp then ehp.
And i understand you wanting diversity in pvp, hell we all want but that's not gonna happen as long as there will be ships in game that will stand above everything else being t3s or command ships or hacs etc. And even if they nerf a class of ship there will be another to take it place and we will be back here arguing about the same thing all over again.
Radhe Amatin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-12-01 20:57:18 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:
Radhe Amatin wrote:

Alliances have different doctrines because of many circumstances, like what space they hold for example if u live in guristas space ppl will have more skills trained in hybrids and missiles and the ships that use them and the doctrines are build somewhat around that because players already have those skills trained.
Wh people use t3s mostly not because its the best ship in game its because they trained for that to live there and it offers a multirole ship without having to many hulls.
In wormholes you don't have stations where you can park your ships so having a tone of doctrine ships its a pain to mange because you have to leave them hanging in space at a pos and risk losing them if the pos get blown up .
T3s are excellent for small fleet and solo wh pve because up to some point they do not need logistic support and u have an option now to switch to pvp to defend.
Third thing null sec have doctrines because they have numbers, a bs or hac or bc doctrine will not work if you don`t have a specific amount of dps ships, logistics, support.In wh most of the day to day pvp are small to medium engagements a set of circumstances where a set doctrine will get you whelped.
Fourth most wh pvp goes around the anomalies so when u go tackle and kill someone there you need a ship that can tank sleepers as well because there's the chance that the sleepers will attack you once u engage the other player/s. Bcs to slow for that job t1/t2 cruisers to weak frigates u`ll probably get insta poped so that leaves t3s which were design mainly for wh use and t3s.
And final if you don`t like what wormhole peeps are flying don't go live in a wh go live in null if u like more diversity or low sec.



1- So you are telling me null sec alliances fly the same ships they use for pve in pvp? you are telling me nullsec theory crafters base their pvp doctrines on what their carebears fly? How disconnected are you? And if the same argument applies to wormholes, who the hell does pve (in high class wormholes) in t3's?

2-Even if wh dont have stations, they have sma's, and any semi respectable wormholer has over 25 ships in his sma. If you don't you are doing something terribly wrong

3- Yes null sec has numbers but if they fly with 50 man or 1000 man gang they fly with a single ship type, 500 tengus, 1000 megas, 150 harpies etc.. Wormholes have lower numbers but they have more diversity in the fleet comp, but it is diverse in only a very limited class, which is t3's, and logi support.

4- And most real wh pvp happens on the holes and not in anamolies. When pvp occurs in anomalies it is usually a gank.

5- So if I want the state of wormholes to become better I have to get out? Nice logic. As I said before in my opinion wh mechanics are the best environment for quality pvp, and it is just a few things holding it back. What I'd like to see is more diversity in fights, more comps and more ingenuity. Right now the only ingenuity applied is either to fit a painter or dampner on your legion (or something on that scale). I am not saying there is no more creativity or diversity in comps and fights in wh space, but it is so much lower than I'd like it or has the potential to be.



1- to some degree yes they do them...why do you think we give them api keys? just for the hell of it....they always have an idea of what the player base can fly.... if u think they theory craft doctrines without considering who can actually fly them man i don`t know what to say.
2- if every respectable wh player has 25 ships in their SMA why is that every time i go in a WH i see ships lying inside pos shields?
3- Who knows maybe people like flying them?
4- i`ll take your word for it.
5- Well i never said you should leave wormholes i just said if u don`t like that activity anymore go do something else.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-12-01 21:25:19 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:
Yes if t3's change then the players will use command ships. But at least command ships can't neut, can't jam, can't 50km web, and can't 75km point. And if command ships becomes the op meta then they be should rebalanced too. Rome wasn't built in a day.

ah yes, my favorite 'NERF T3s!!' argument; they can ewar too well!
go look up recon ship bonuses son, then come back and tell me that T3 ewar is super OP.

yeah, T3s can do ok ewar with a tank. that is called being generalized.
if you want the best, specialized ewar however, you get a T2 ship.

strange, seems to me like that's working exactly as intended.... *shrug*

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#54 - 2013-12-02 12:51:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Joan Greywind
Jack Miton wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:
Yes if t3's change then the players will use command ships. But at least command ships can't neut, can't jam, can't 50km web, and can't 75km point. And if command ships becomes the op meta then they be should rebalanced too. Rome wasn't built in a day.

ah yes, my favorite 'NERF T3s!!' argument; they can ewar too well!
go look up recon ship bonuses son, then come back and tell me that T3 ewar is super OP.

yeah, T3s can do ok ewar with a tank. that is called being generalized.
if you want the best, specialized ewar however, you get a T2 ship.

strange, seems to me like that's working exactly as intended.... *shrug*



First of I am not your son.

And yes recons are a bit better on the ewar side, but even with logi support they can get alphad off the field.

And I clearly said in more than 1 post than if t3's needs to get nerfed command ships needs their masses changed also.

I also mentioned in another post that the nerf doesn't need to be to the stats of the ships, personally I would prefer it if they just made the subsystems increase the mass of the t3s (also add speed and agility to compensate).

Whether you like it or not t3's by any gaming standards are considered OP, in wormholes of course. Why in wormholes only, because of their small mass attribute. Gaming 101 if people are using a certain item, hero, ship a lot more than another, then that thing is considered OP. In wormholes t3's are king and this needs to be changed.

Next time please read the other posts in the thread before picking 1 point out of context and attacking it, you of all people can be a little better at forum conversations.
Erad Stomper
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#55 - 2013-12-02 19:18:31 UTC
If T3 becomes useless eve is doomed.

When you train a ship for 6 month and CCP make your 6 month of training a waste of time, you answer in kind by stoping the next month payment.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#56 - 2013-12-02 20:22:47 UTC
I like the "remove rigs" idea, but it sounds like CCP is leaning towards allowing t3's to remove rigs without destroying them at all. My big issue with the removal of rig slots is that I currently like my t3's and would be sad to see them get a significant nerf that affected me. The more general issue is that the removal of rig slots would hurt the tengu more than any other ship, specifically because there are no modules that affect missile flight time, velocity, explosion radius, or explosion velocity.


Erad Stomper wrote:
If T3 becomes useless eve is doomed.

When you train a ship for 6 month and CCP make your 6 month of training a waste of time, you answer in kind by stoping the next month payment.


oh hush, 80% of that training is pre-reqs or weapon skills that apply to dozens of other ships. 5 subsystems to level 5 takes less than a month.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#57 - 2013-12-02 20:43:39 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:
And yes recons are a bit better on the ewar side, but even with logi support they can get alphad off the field.

a bit? son, the difference is huge.
like i said, the tank isnt relevant when looking at specialized ewar roles.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#58 - 2013-12-02 21:35:35 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:
And yes recons are a bit better on the ewar side, but even with logi support they can get alphad off the field.

a bit? son, the difference is huge.
like i said, the tank isnt relevant when looking at specialized ewar roles.


Are you serious? tank isn't important for ewar ships? the ships that get primaried first and where most fights happen on holes and close range, you say tank is not important? That is why everyone is flying curses instead of legions and falcons instead of tengus. At this point I am not sure if you are trolling or not.

And stop with the son bullshit, doesn't make you sound smarter.

you seem to be a master at taking a small part of my threadt and taking it out of context, while not answering any of the other points that support the argument.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#59 - 2013-12-02 21:48:03 UTC
Bro, you are mad.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
SpiderPig 96
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#60 - 2013-12-02 22:10:56 UTC
Kalel Nimrott wrote:
Bro, you are mad.