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The Marmite Collective Wardeccing... for a good cause ? Really ?

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#321 - 2013-12-01 07:54:28 UTC
Movash wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Ezekiel Ironstone wrote:
I find this whole thread interesting.

So does anyone else see an issue with this in regards to CCP taking the position of defining what is and isn't a moral cause in RL?


But that's not what they're doing, they're defining what can and cannot be done on their game.


It's pretty hard to escape that question, however, when you are converting real money and labor into monopoly money and then back into real money for a cause. Its okay to be a warmonger in Eve, but if you tell me you are Robin Hood and rob me of my play money to turn it into real money for a cause, I think that's where people draw the line.


Would you rather they just wardec you, tell you they're pirates and they're taking your play money to turn it into their own play money for no cause other than bolstering their own in-game finances at the expense of yours? Because it's really no different, is it. I mean, think about it, what they do with that play money after they have it only matters to CCP if they tell you they're going to donate it, but don't, because that's something they've expressly forbidden. If they wanted you, they could just ransom you for the cost of the plex and tell you nothing more, and if you decide to pay, they could donate it to plex for good, and you wouldn't even know it had happened, they'd never have to tell you a thing.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
BKM Industries
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#322 - 2013-12-02 02:37:38 UTC
Movash wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Obmud wrote:
So I log back to eve to see the marmites wardeccing left and right.

Here's the mail they sent out with the decs:

"We thought it would be a good idea to war dec alliances. And if they want to surrender they will have to donate a plex to the lex for good campaign. We just want to do something to support the Plex for good campaign of ccp".

I have several problems with this...

This leaves a very sour taste in my mouth, i understand when people bully others in eve just for their sheer pleasure and the harvest of tears, some (if not all) of the best stories in eve have come through the loss of someone else and they following rage and machoism is just the icing of the cake. However, why do you have to mix this with a tragedy that happened in real life ?

Can we PLEASE keep this separate ? How much and if i donated something to the philippines is my personal matter, i dont want to talk about it in eve, i dont even want to lay out how much i sent, it's none of your guys business and i certainly don't want to be blackmailed into a RL activity by anyone nomatter how "good" it is. You can dec me all day long just to be a ****, thats completely fine, this is eve in the end.

...



Considering the Red cross will use 90% of the money people donate just to pay the exorbitant salaries of their executives... that itself should get you a way bitter taste than anything related to wars. I myself would never donate a single penny to red cross. I just use this money to help smaller entities close by that I can see exactly how they use the money while operatign under the natinal jurisdiction and strictly forbidden to use the money for anything other than direct help.


Me and many other Red Cross disaster volunteers were on the ground away from friends and family to help out during the last few hurricanes. There were many other humanitarian organizations helping out as well. You can't really understand either the devastation or the organization needed to run these operations till you've seen it with your own eyes.

People who quote that largely inaccurate statistic (actual administrative cost of operations is 10%) usually follow up with a link to their own charity organization. Ever notice that? Here's the facts:

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=3277#.Uppvj8RDv9k

Strangely, I don't recall the Marmite alliance sending any volunteers to help out or any financial transparency on their part.


Not sure what this alliance does in RL has to do with what goes on in game. I do stuff for charity 7 days a week not just when something bad heppens in the world.

Why would my alliance need financial transparency? Are you asking Cribba for the same? Oh wait Cribba is getting isk and stuff sent to him when my alliance is not. Now I see why you want it. Here I will give it to you.

0 isk and 0 PLEX went to my alliance for the PLEX for good. PLEX may have been turned in to CCP by corps that were not even the ones I deced to end wars. Yet that is between CCP and the corps I have seen the SS's of accepted contract(s) if any.

Now maybe you should ask what I have recived seeing if you knew what you were talking about you would be speaking about me and not my alliance. If you want that it will cost you 1 PLEX for the PLEX for good. You can either contract it to me or show me a finished contract to CCP with one that is after this post.

Also if you want to talk about knowing a lot about good PR you should not start being agressive twards people who are helping the charity you claim to work for. You leave people thinking all people who work with the Red Cross are dicks. I know this is not the case.

Quote:

I do know a little something about raising money for charity and I can tell you just letting anyone put their name on your giving program without vetting, guidelines, and approval is a sure way to ensure nobody has confidence in your giving programs.


So tell me does the Red Cross know you are claiming to be one of its members while barking at atleast one person who donated a lot of money to them every year for many years? So in your whole what should happen thing where is the part about you giving the Red Cross bad PR?

What should happen:

"PLEX for GOOD" => Donations to needy => Joy Joy good feelings => Good CCP PR

Funny how you say this is whats going on

PLEX for GOOD" => Thin justification for war griefers to troll highsec => highsecs don't play => no PLEX generated => No donations to needy => No feel good moments => No CCP PR

Yet already this is the best PLEX for Good drive done so far. So you may want to get some facts right. Free advice for next time maybe bash the people bashing the Red Cross instead of bashing people who are helping it. If this was a scam I would have never sent CCP a mail and deced them like the otehr corps/alliances who got picked. See you would not want to draw attention to yourself if you are trying to do something sneaky. It is like in WH's you dont enter one with the intent of killing people and say in local "hello we are not here just pretend you don't see us talking in local".
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#323 - 2013-12-02 02:50:03 UTC
Hey, Marmite guys!

Would it be possible for you to post how many donations you all have rustled up thus far?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
BKM Industries
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#324 - 2013-12-02 04:56:02 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hey, Marmite guys!

Would it be possible for you to post how many donations you all have rustled up thus far?



https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3937897#post3937897 is the total so far not counting my personal stuff.
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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#325 - 2013-12-02 09:16:49 UTC
When I see my alliance constantly wardecced by Marmite, I get mad.....at my alliance for not flying fleets against them. I mean come on, they're practically handing us faction fit Legions right in Amarr! How do we just ignore them? Shocked

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#326 - 2013-12-02 11:17:35 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
When I see my alliance constantly wardecced by Marmite, I get mad.....at my alliance for not flying fleets against them. I mean come on, they're practically handing us faction fit Legions right in Amarr! How do we just ignore them? Shocked
We are just friendly care bears .... ignore us Twisted

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#327 - 2013-12-02 13:22:13 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
When I see my alliance constantly wardecced by Marmite, I get mad.....at my alliance for not flying fleets against them. I mean come on, they're practically handing us faction fit Legions right in Amarr! How do we just ignore them? Shocked

Why don't you do something about it then?
Movash
Circinaen Order
#328 - 2013-12-02 22:18:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Movash
BKM Industries wrote:

Not sure what this alliance does in RL has to do with what goes on in game....[more stuff]


...I gotta admit, that was a creative remix of several of my posts into one post, to make some point, of which I'm not sure what it was. Just to be explicit:

1) Someone quoted an often repeated fallacious statistic of cost of operations about the Red Cross, I corrected that. Cost of operations is 10%.

2) No, I don't like my game money being robbed and converted into real money, no matter what your supposed cause is. Everyone has their bright line, that's mine. Then you are really just trying to rob me.

3) I'm talking about the eventual effects of this kind of malfeasance on new players, casual players, and PvE players. The arbitrage bump Plex for GOOD gets by letting a player alliance using an exploit to run roughshod over Highsec is something that is gained by taking something away from someone else. The effects of that aren't felt immediately, in fact the opposite is felt in the short term, for obvious reasons.

4) I am not a fund raising person for the Red Cross, let's just be explicit about that.

I guess the overall point is we have highsec for a reason. Some of us play there. We don't like what's happening and many of us are taking a vacation from Eve as a result. It's a sandbox world, so I don't care that you don't play like I play. Casual players are under represented on these forums, and we can't compete with flotillas of Legions.
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#329 - 2013-12-02 22:27:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
Bonus that they were kind enough to tell you where the planned on using the isk.

Double bonus for that fact that it just might do some real good. This should make you feel good; you know, like at least they spooned you after they plugged your rear.
Movash
Circinaen Order
#330 - 2013-12-02 22:34:44 UTC
Slade Trillgon wrote:
Bonus that they were kind enough to tell you where the planned on using the isk.

Double bonus for that fact that it just might do some real good. This should make you feel good; you know, like at least they spooned you after they plugged your rear.


Yes, transparent and slippery is better, I appreciate a little lube.
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#331 - 2013-12-02 23:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
Movash wrote:


I guess the overall point is we have highsec for a reason. Some of us play there. We don't like what's happening and many of us are taking a vacation from Eve as a result. It's a sandbox world, so I don't care that you don't play like I play. Casual players are under represented on these forums, and we can't compete with flotillas of Legions.


There is a reason they are underrepresented. Because they are casual and tend to like this game teh way it is or they just go somewhere else.

I know of a very quiet low sec region where you and a number of other casual players go and make pretty dag on good isk and not have to deal with too much harassment. Even if your presence attracts some pirates you avoid them long enough and they will leave or you can engage and have a little fun. PM me if you are interested in the region name. There is also a juicy 0.0 region near by that can be entered fairly easily for some quick fun or deep space isk acquisition as well.

EDIT: This region is good for casual low sec existance
Movash
Circinaen Order
#332 - 2013-12-03 00:56:38 UTC
Slade Trillgon wrote:
Movash wrote:


I guess the overall point is we have highsec for a reason. Some of us play there. We don't like what's happening and many of us are taking a vacation from Eve as a result. It's a sandbox world, so I don't care that you don't play like I play. Casual players are under represented on these forums, and we can't compete with flotillas of Legions.


There is a reason they are underrepresented. Because they are casual and tend to like this game teh way it is or they just go somewhere else.

I know of a very quiet low sec region where you and a number of other casual players go and make pretty dag on good isk and not have to deal with too much harassment. Even if your presence attracts some pirates you avoid them long enough and they will leave or you can engage and have a little fun. PM me if you are interested in the region name. There is also a juicy 0.0 region near by that can be entered fairly easily for some quick fun or deep space isk acquisition as well.

EDIT: This region is good for casual low sec existance


Thanks, I will be taking you up on that offer.
BKM Industries
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#333 - 2013-12-03 01:39:25 UTC
Movash wrote:
BKM Industries wrote:

Not sure what this alliance does in RL has to do with what goes on in game....[more stuff]


...I gotta admit, that was a creative remix of several of my posts into one post, to make some point, of which I'm not sure what it was. Just to be explicit:

1) Someone quoted an often repeated fallacious statistic of cost of operations about the Red Cross, I corrected that. Cost of operations is 10%.

2) No, I don't like my game money being robbed and converted into real money, no matter what your supposed cause is. Everyone has their bright line, that's mine. Then you are really just trying to rob me.

3) I'm talking about the eventual effects of this kind of malfeasance on new players, casual players, and PvE players. The arbitrage bump Plex for GOOD gets by letting a player alliance using an exploit to run roughshod over Highsec is something that is gained by taking something away from someone else. The effects of that aren't felt immediately, in fact the opposite is felt in the short term, for obvious reasons.

4) I am not a fund raising person for the Red Cross, let's just be explicit about that.

I guess the overall point is we have highsec for a reason. Some of us play there. We don't like what's happening and many of us are taking a vacation from Eve as a result. It's a sandbox world, so I don't care that you don't play like I play. Casual players are under represented on these forums, and we can't compete with flotillas of Legions.


Who has robbed you or tryed to? No one in my alliance has. You never got a mail from me. You got a normal war dec and you are not even a CEO and crying about it. So ask your CEO or alliance leader to handle it.

As for number 3 what exploit would that be? Please inform CCP of any such exploit. You should try to help people in this game from people who use exploits. I think people who know of exploits in games and stand by and do nothing are just as bad as people who use the same exploits.

As for number 4 that has nothing to do with anything we are talking about. You brought up good PR vs bad PR and are bashing people donating pretend money in a game to make real money to help people in need. You also brought up that you work for them no one asked. Now you wanna run from what you said by deflecting stuff.

If you do not like war decs you can always play another game. No one is forcing you to play this game. If you do not like that fact that people in this game including myself and my alliance are helping a real life charity by playing you can always just not read up on us. 

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#334 - 2013-12-03 01:48:14 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hey, Marmite guys!

Would it be possible for you to post how many donations you all have rustled up thus far?

None, because extortion is not donation. And extortion forcing people to take an out of game action even worse.
Movash
Circinaen Order
#335 - 2013-12-03 02:23:14 UTC
Thanks for your suggestion to quit the game after your unprovoked declaration of war against our alliance. You'll forgive me if I don't find this advice particularly constructive.
BKM Industries
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#336 - 2013-12-03 02:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: BKM Industries
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hey, Marmite guys!

Would it be possible for you to post how many donations you all have rustled up thus far?

None, because extortion is not donation. And extortion forcing people to take an out of game action even worse.


You should learn to read. This has been addressed many times.

Movash wrote:
Thanks for your suggestion to quit the game after your unprovoked declaration of war against our alliance. You'll forgive me if I don't find this advice particularly constructive.


It was provoked you guys play the game. That was an open invatation to a war. You should go try Ever Quest no one can war dec you in that game. I also hear you guys molested some veldspar.
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Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#337 - 2013-12-03 22:45:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Davon Mandra'thin
What ever happened to this did CCP ever rule on what would happen if Marmite didn't pay out to PLEX for Good? Because it was left incredibly vague. All falcon said was that "It would be treated as a scam", which considering scams are fine 99% of the time doesn't really say anything at all.
BKM Industries
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#338 - 2013-12-04 01:11:11 UTC
You should read this thread. Here is something else that will also have more answers for you http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/plex-for-good-philippines-typhoon-relief/?utm_source=Launcher&utm_medium=Banner&utm_content=PLEX+For+Good+Philippines&utm_campaign=PLEX+For+Good+Philippines

Read both and you will have all the answers you seek.



Brock Nelson wrote:
ResearchGuy10k wrote:
How about Marmite donates all the donations they get to Chribba's Trillion isk doubling for PFG?

now that would be an awesome plan.

Big smile


Chribba double donation (up to 1 trillion)


It's not Chribba that's donating up to 1 trillion if you bother to read the thread.


You should read this thread. It is not myself or this alliance that is donating the PLEX from our war targets to ourselfs. Now it is in the same light for you. We are collecting PLEX to turn in just like CHribba is.
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Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#339 - 2013-12-04 04:04:51 UTC
I've slipped by them a half dozen times. They're really not that dangerous. Honestly, if you want easy kills, dec them and head out to Niarja with a half dozen guys and you'll roll over them.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
BKM Industries
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#340 - 2013-12-04 04:31:50 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
I've slipped by them a half dozen times. They're really not that dangerous. Honestly, if you want easy kills, dec them and head out to Niarja with a half dozen guys and you'll roll over them.


Shhhhhh we do our mining ops in Niarja.... WTF now people will know where to find us when we dec them......
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