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The Marmite Collective Wardeccing... for a good cause ? Really ?

First post First post
Author
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-11-27 10:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Obmud
So I log back to eve to see the marmites wardeccing left and right.

Here's the mail they sent out with the decs:

"We thought it would be a good idea to war dec alliances. And if they want to surrender they will have to donate a plex to the lex for good campaign. We just want to do something to support the Plex for good campaign of ccp".

I have several problems with this...

This leaves a very sour taste in my mouth, i understand when people bully others in eve just for their sheer pleasure and the harvest of tears, some (if not all) of the best stories in eve have come through the loss of someone else and they following rage and machoism is just the icing of the cake. However, why do you have to mix this with a tragedy that happened in real life ?

Can we PLEASE keep this separate ? How much and if i donated something to the philippines is my personal matter, i dont want to talk about it in eve, i dont even want to lay out how much i sent, it's none of your guys business and i certainly don't want to be blackmailed into a RL activity by anyone nomatter how "good" it is. You can dec me all day long just to be a ****, thats completely fine, this is eve in the end.

I would like to play a game when i play the game and not have this in my face all the time, especially since we come from all walks of life, i can think of alot of examples where such humanitarian aid would be a slap in your face if you just come from the wrong country or different ideology when in fact you would just love to play the game. (not in this case maybe, but where do you draw the line ?)

Plex for Good through CCP is fine, it's something i can choose to do freely and i think its great that ccp took action on behalf of the community. But this ? What if they use it as a scam to make money ?
What if they lift the dec afterwards and then dec you again but this time for other reasons ? How... i dont even... ???

I'm probably getting flamed for this but i can't make sense of it and would love to get some input from you guys.

(no, i didnt get wardecced, this is my main and he's in an npc corp, no i'm not butthurt, no eve is not dieing, no it's not my brother who used this account)


UPDATE

As per wether it is allowed or not CCP Falcon responded:

CCP Falcon wrote:

I've spoken with the GM Team regarding this, and the decision is quite simple.

Corporate extortion via demand for payment to cease hostilities is a valid game mechanic.

If this valid game mechanic is being used as a method of raising ISK for a good cause, then CCP will not intervene.

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.

Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#2 - 2013-11-27 10:34:25 UTC
Deal with it. Extortion is a valid game mechanic.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-11-27 10:35:13 UTC
A mission runner runs missions and uses the ISK he gets from bounties to buy PLEX to donate to PFG.
A miner mines and uses the ISK he gets from selling minerals to buy PLEX to donate to PFG.
A wardeccer wardecs people and uses the ISK he gets from ransoms to buy PLEX to donate to PFG.

I don't see any difference here. Or do you want to stop other people from donating their honestly obtained ISK for the good cause too?
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-11-27 10:37:00 UTC
Icarus Able wrote:
Deal with it. Extortion is a valid game mechanic.


Blackmailing people into doing stuff that they wouldn't do otherwise in the RL world is a criminal offence. It has nothing to do with a game mechanic, that is EXACTLY my point and it nowhere justifies everything you do just because ccp tolerates the double isk scammers in jita. I have problems understanding your logic to be honest.

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.

Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2013-11-27 10:37:56 UTC
Classy of them, I fully support this action.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-11-27 10:38:04 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
A mission runner runs missions and uses the ISK he gets from bounties to buy PLEX to donate to PFG.
A miner mines and uses the ISK he gets from selling minerals to buy PLEX to donate to PFG.
A wardeccer wardecs people and uses the ISK he gets from ransoms to buy PLEX to donate to PFG.

I don't see any difference here. Or do you want to stop other people from donating their honestly obtained ISK for the good cause too?


Care to read what i wrote ? Its a difference if you chose to do it yourself or get blackmailed into it. If the marmites are so good and generous why dont they just gather the money and THEN use that money to donate it ? Why even mention it ?

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-11-27 10:38:40 UTC
Obmud wrote:
So I log back to eve to see the marmites wardeccing left and right.

Here's the mail they sent out with the decs:

"We thought it would be a good idea to war dec alliances. And if they want to surrender they will have to donate a plex to the lex for good campaign. We just want to do something to support the Plex for good campaign of ccp".

I have several problems with this...

This leaves a very sour taste in my mouth, i understand when people bully others in eve just for their sheer pleasure and the harvest of tears, some (if not all) of the best stories in eve have come through the loss of someone else and they following rage and machoism is just the icing of the cake. However, why do you have to mix this with a tragedy that happened in real life ?

Can we PLEASE keep this separate ? How much and if i donated something to the philippines is my personal matter, i dont want to talk about it in eve, i dont even want to lay out how much i sent, it's none of your guys business and i certainly don't want to be blackmailed into a RL activity by anyone nomatter how "good" it is. You can dec me all day long just to be a ****, thats completely fine, this is eve in the end.

I would like to play a game when i play the game and not have this in my face all the time, especially since we come from all walks of life, i can think of alot of examples where such humanitarian aid would be a slap in your face if you just come from the wrong country or different ideology when in fact you would just love to play the game. (not in this case maybe, but where do you draw the line ?)

Plex for Good through CCP is fine, it's something i can choose to do freely and i think its great that ccp took action on behalf of the community. But this ? What if they use it as a scam to make money ? Where is the line between forcing someone to donate and convincing them ?
What if they lift the dec afterwards and then dec you again but this time for other reasons ? How... i dont even... ???

I'm probably getting flamed for this but i can't make sense of it and would love to get some input from you guys.

(no, i didnt get wardecced, this is my main and he's in an npc corp, no i'm not butthurt, no eve is not dieing, no it's not my brother who used this account)



Considering the Red cross will use 90% of the money people donate just to pay the exorbitant salaries of their executives... that itself should get you a way bitter taste than anything related to wars. I myself would never donate a single penny to red cross. I just use this money to help smaller entities close by that I can see exactly how they use the money while operatign under the natinal jurisdiction and strictly forbidden to use the money for anything other than direct help.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Caladin Brood
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-11-27 10:39:29 UTC
tbh that sounds disgusting and low even by eve standards, using the plight of a RL catastrophe to bully your way in a game is the word of bottom feeders and scum of a other level but i guess the reaction to this will only be welcome to eve where no matter the situation or circumstance we will make a way for it to benefit us and enjoy your tears no matter how they come
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-11-27 10:41:49 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Considering the Red cross will use 90% of the money people donate just to pay the exorbitant salaries of their executives... that itself should get you a way bitter taste than anything related to wars. I myself would never donate a single penny to red cross. I just use this money to help smaller entities close by that I can see exactly how they use the money while operatign under the natinal jurisdiction and strictly forbidden to use the money for anything other than direct help.


I agree with you on this, and this is exactly what i mean, in this case the marmite decides what's good and therefore you should act on it. It doesn't matter if you have a different opinion they just decide it for you and blackmail you into it. It's just fashionable right now to fly under the banner of being righteous and everybody who questions it is an carebear idiot.

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.

Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-11-27 10:42:01 UTC
Obmud wrote:
Icarus Able wrote:
Deal with it. Extortion is a valid game mechanic.


Blackmailing people into doing stuff that they wouldn't do otherwise in the RL world is a criminal offence.

Gee, I'm so glad that we're not talking about the RL world, but about an internet spaceship game in which it's valid gameplay.

Obmud wrote:
Care to read what i wrote ? Its a difference if you chose to do it yourself or get blackmailed into it. If the marmites are so good and generous why dont they just gather the money and THEN use that money to donate it ?

They do exactly that. Only their method of gathering the money involves gathering it from you.
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-11-27 10:44:17 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Obmud wrote:
[quote=Icarus Able]Deal with it. Extortion is a valid game mechanic.


Blackmailing people into doing stuff that they wouldn't do otherwise in the RL world is a criminal offence.

Gee, I'm so glad that we're not talking about the RL world, but about an internet spaceship game in which it's valid gameplay.

Ever heard of oportunity costs ? It's NOT valid, it doesnt matter if you just keep repeating it without giving a proper reason.

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#12 - 2013-11-27 10:44:37 UTC
Good for Marmite. Using their military might in a videogame to make a difference in the real world.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Caladin Brood
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-11-27 10:48:18 UTC
The use of a RL catastrophe to BM an extort in game should not be valid and should be stomped out simple, there is plenty of IN_GAME reasons to wardec,grief,gank etc without resorting to bully tactics of RL implications.
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#14 - 2013-11-27 10:50:07 UTC
I think it could be worse. They could be asking for Billions of ISK to line their own pockets.

Anyway, those who say the Red Cross keeps 90% of the money for themselves need to get their facts straight. All you have to do is Google and see 9% of the money donated is used for administrative costs, like salaries and other things it takes to run a business. And out of that 9%, only 4% goes to salaries. The rest is for fundraising expenses and so on. That means 91 cents out of every dollar donated is used for relief efforts, which is pretty damn good.

There are a lot of other charities that only give 9 cents out of every dollar, and use the rest to line their pockets. Get your facts straight before spouting off, it makes you look stupid.
Dextrome Thorphan
#15 - 2013-11-27 10:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Dextrome Thorphan
Huh? Corps/alliances wardec other corps/alliances... this is nothing new What?
I don't see what the problem is...


Obmud wrote:
Icarus Able wrote:
Deal with it. Extortion is a valid game mechanic.


Blackmailing people into doing stuff that they wouldn't do otherwise in the RL world is a criminal offence. It has nothing to do with a game mechanic, that is EXACTLY my point and it nowhere justifies everything you do just because ccp tolerates the double isk scammers in jita. I have problems understanding your logic to be honest.


Uhm... blackmailing is only illegal irl if you get caught. So yeah... I really doubt there are more blackmailers or scammers in eve than there are irl lol (do you have any idea how many people get scammed daily IRL?) So I don't know why you're bringing RL into your argument really. Roll

I mean, by your logic killing other players in eve should also be disallowed, because it's a criminal offense to kill people irl lol
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#16 - 2013-11-27 10:55:40 UTC
Marmite wardec whether or not there is a catastrophe, and Marmite accept profitable surrenders whether or not there is a catastrophe. The only difference this time is that they aren't taking the profits.

My alliance has been decced for most of its existance by marmitte - even merely flying out here, I had to fly covops cloak to get assets through uedema, so personally I think some people need a nice cup of concrete to harden them up.
Caladin Brood
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-11-27 11:03:18 UTC
Here a Story

There this wee boy goes to school everyday, everyday he gets bullied and beat up, he plays eve to find his fun and forget about it, the bullies(who also play eve) find out and start using that to BM an extort him in game

eve communities reaction = legit use of game mechanic
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#18 - 2013-11-27 11:04:35 UTC
Obmud wrote:
Blackmailing people into doing stuff that they wouldn't do otherwise in the RL world is a criminal offence.

So report them to the police so they can laugh at you while the rest of us act disgusted by how selfish you're being.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#19 - 2013-11-27 11:07:09 UTC
Caladin Brood wrote:
tbh that sounds disgusting and low even by eve standards, using the plight of a RL catastrophe to bully your way in a game is the word of bottom feeders and scum of a other level

They're not using a catastrophe to bully others. They're bullying others to help those in need. Get it right and stop being so selfish.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#20 - 2013-11-27 11:07:26 UTC
Caladin Brood wrote:
Here a Story

There this wee boy goes to school everyday, everyday he gets bullied and beat up, he plays eve to find his fun and forget about it, the bullies(who also play eve) find out and start using that to BM an extort him in game

eve communities reaction = legit use of game mechanic


0/10. RL Bullies play codblops not spreadsheets in space.
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