These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[NERF] Serpentis web bonus change

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#761 - 2013-12-08 20:05:45 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Like every single other ship ? You are brilliant theorycrafter ...

Truth is that NightmareX and Nyancat are best proofs that Vindi and serpentis need nerf.

They have no idea how ships work in this game and yet they still do well.

Kinda against any logic , right ?

What we will hear now that TD and neuts destroy vindi ? I heard they destroy every turret ship. And no they don't destroy vindi who will hit anyway with 2x 90% webs target wont move so tracking and range wont be an issue.

Yes Vindi is immune to curse.

No, me and him are the proof that the Vindicator's 90 webber isn't the issue here, also that the Vindicator as it is now is fine.

There are 2 issues here. 1. Noobs who doesn't have a freaking clue what so ever to counter a Vindicator. There are several counters that basicly makes a Vindicator a dying brick. 2. The 2nd issue is that the dreads should not be able to lock cruiser, destroyers and frig sized ships.

3. Profit?

This basicly makes it so that no one will cry over losing a cruiser, destroyer or a frig anymore to a dread because some Vindicators webbed you and at the same time still keeps the Vindicator good at what's made to do. Also that it can stay unique like the other pirate battleships.

I find it quite funny that no one have ever bothered to answer me on this so far. Maybe that's because you are horribly at doing PVP and can't come up with an idea to counter the Vindicator and have to cry to CCP to nerf the ship rather than you adapting to the Vindicator's uniqueness / advantage.

And to the last thing, that statement is the only proof that we needs to confirm that you have no clues how the Curse or the Vindicator works. So thanks for that.

Naomi Anthar wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
I think one people are missing out on is that damps can absolutely destroy these ships. Also, you people need to learn to range control. If you get within 14km of a Vindi, you don't know how to PvP.

One could also make it so Serpentis ships can only fit 1 web at a time.

Damps can absolutely destroy almost any ship. Though it's slightly easier with the low lockrange of Serp ships, it's not exactly unique to them.

And as for 14km range, you clearly don't real situation PvP. OH webs with skirmish links (as I have said about a billion times, everyone and their mom has OGBs) get 24km range. So if you drift within 24km you get webbed, slow down to hopeless levels, and die.

I don't like the 1 web per ship limitation, it's arbitrary and is an artificial nerf to Serp ships. Honestly better to be a slightly nerfed strength. At least then it's obvious and less arbitrary. 10% per level down to 5% or 7.5% per level. That's still incredibly more powerful than the base 60% web.


But you must understand that NightmareX will even think Vindi will be useless with 9,99% web bonus per level. Obviously ship will be useless and next Megathron ... sigh

No, the Vindicator will be useless if it can't slow down the ships so much that it WONT be dangerous for those who are webbed by the Vindicator. It SHOULD be extremely dangerous to be webbed by the Vindicator. That's the whole point with the ship.

A 75% web strength is something everyone is going to laugh at as alot of ships can gets under the Vindicator's tracking really easily then. The point with the Vindicator is that no ships should have it easy to get under the Vindicator's tracking and webbing, not even frigs.

And this is something you simply doesn't understand, because like i said, you have no idea what the Vindicator is and what it's supposed to do.


This is true. +1
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#762 - 2013-12-08 20:06:41 UTC
NightmareX wrote:

No, the Vindicator will be useless if it can't slow down the ships so much that it WONT be dangerous for those who are webbed by the Vindicator. It SHOULD be extremely dangerous to be webbed by the Vindicator. That's the whole point with the ship.

A 75% web strength is something everyone is going to laugh at as alot of ships can gets under the Vindicator's tracking really easily then. The point with the Vindicator is that no ships should have it easy to get under the Vindicator's tracking and webbing, not even frigs.

And this is something you simply doesn't understand, because like i said, you have no idea what the Vindicator is and what it's supposed to do.

It'll be a hell of a lot harder to get under its tracking with a 75% web than any other ship with a 60% web. The 75 is still leaps and bounds better than 60% and the tracking will be immensely better than even a Navy Mega.


NightmareX wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Being able to wreck any ship smaller than itself is overpowered, whether you say it's 'the point' of the ship or not.

For normal ships yes, not for ships with special abilities.

By that statement, we can pretty much say that CCP should nerf Super Carriers to not be able to wreck any ship smaller than itself. Or let Titans wrecks carriers, dreads and super carriers as ther are smaller ships than the Titan itself.

Oh, so we should let CCP return AOE DD's, because all it was was a Titan special ability that let it wreck every ship smaller than itself in a huge radius. But they're ships with special abilities, so it was balanced.

Saeger1737 wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:

Like every single other ship ? You are brilliant theorycrafter ...

Truth is that NightmareX and Nyancat are best proofs that Vindi and serpentis need nerf.

They have no idea how ships work in this game and yet they still do well.

Kinda against any logic , right ?

What we will hear now that TD and neuts destroy vindi ? I heard they destroy every turret ship. And no they don't destroy vindi who will hit anyway with 2x 90% webs target wont move so tracking and range wont be an issue.

Yes Vindi is immune to curse.


Vindi isn't curse immune you obviously don't know how to PvP properly so shut it.

Not immune, but pretty damn resistant. The TD's are pretty well countered by the range control given by 90% webs (you control the range, you pick whatever range you want to be at) and the transversal control given by the enemy ship being near immobile. The Neuts are countered by the cap booster literally every ship above cruiser and many cruiser and below should be fitting.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#763 - 2013-12-08 20:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
TrouserDeagle wrote:
It's still dumb, no matter how many times I read it.

Just because it's dumb to YOU doesn't make it to be an issue / problem. I'm all fine that Super Carriers and Carriers are able to kill frigs, cruisers, battlecruisers and battleships. Same with the titan being able to kill smaller targets.

And as the ONLY issue with the 90% web on the Vindicator is because some dreads is able to hit some frigs and cruiser after a Vindicator have webbed them. Why not just remove the ability for the dreads to lock frigs and cruisers then as that will solve the issue some peoples have here?

Oh noes, i think it's dumb that Super Carriers can lock and kill frigs and cruisers, omgomg, cry to CCP that they have to nerf the Super Carrier and deny them to use light and medium drones so they don't kill frigs and cruisers fast.

Does that sounds good?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#764 - 2013-12-08 20:09:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
NightmareX wrote:
Still doesn't change the fact that the issues some players have here can be completely fixed by not allowing dreads to lock cruisers, destroyers and frigs. By doing that, you still keeps the dreads as good as they are meant to be and at the same time keeps the Vindicator unique.Profit???


"not allowing dreads to lock cruisers, destroyers and frigs"

Seriously? Did you seriously write that and actually mean it? You were sober and not on any drugs at the time, right?

Let's just create artificial restrictions and strange special circumstances for every "problem" that comes up, right? Let's just ignore how breaking one thing horribly in order to preserve something else - especially when there are artificial restrictions used in the "solution" - can cause countless other problems in areas that weren't originally considered. Will we create more artificial solutions for those problems too?

You post on these forums as a joke, right? I can't even begin to explain how terrible this "fix" is. Your idea is so awful and completely against the nature of EVE that it just defies all description. Words simply do not exist in any known language- oh wait, I thought of a way:

Incarna was better.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#765 - 2013-12-08 20:10:49 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

No, the Vindicator will be useless if it can't slow down the ships so much that it WONT be dangerous for those who are webbed by the Vindicator. It SHOULD be extremely dangerous to be webbed by the Vindicator. That's the whole point with the ship.

A 75% web strength is something everyone is going to laugh at as alot of ships can gets under the Vindicator's tracking really easily then. The point with the Vindicator is that no ships should have it easy to get under the Vindicator's tracking and webbing, not even frigs.

And this is something you simply doesn't understand, because like i said, you have no idea what the Vindicator is and what it's supposed to do.


Being able to wreck any ship smaller than itself is overpowered, whether you say it's 'the point' of the ship or not.


By this logic, cruisers shouldn't be able to destroy frigates, and Battlecruisers shouldn't be able to destroy cruisers or frigates, and battleships shouldn't be able to destroy battlecruisers, cruisers, or frigates. I see a flaw in your logic....

A ship fit according to it's bonuses to perform in a specific role is just that.

Any non-Minmatar T1 EWAR frigate for 2 million ISK can completely disable the Vindicator. You could damp it to the point where it can't target beyond a couple kilometers at most, or where it takes too long to event target anything. You could tracking disrupt it to the point where it couldn't hit a dread, or beyond a couple hundred meters. You could simply jam it out.


You're supposed to have to put some effort into it, not just fit a web and auto-kill everything. Small ships being too easy for large ships to kill is a pretty huge failing of the combat in eve, it's not just a vindi problem.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#766 - 2013-12-08 20:13:24 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Still doesn't change the fact that the issues some players have here can be completely fixed by not allowing dreads to lock cruisers, destroyers and frigs. By doing that, you still keeps the dreads as good as they are meant to be and at the same time keeps the Vindicator unique.Profit???


"not allowing dreads to lock cruisers, destroyers and frigs"

Seriously? Did you seriously write that and actually mean it? You were sober and not on any drugs at the time, right?

You post on these forums as a joke, right? I can't even begin to explain how terrible this "fix" is. It's just indescribable how terrible your ideas are. Words simply do not exist in any known language- oh wait, I thought of a way:

Incarna was better than your idea.

Removed a personal attack. -ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

What differences does it makes for a dread that it can't lock those ships?

Dreads is not meant to shoot those ships anyways, so what's the problem?

Titans can't lock Battleships and smaller ships either. Is that a problem for the titan?

The crying in this topic is quite amazing. Everytime i see a reply like yours over here, i see this: http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv4/Kitesuna/Silly/your-tears-are-delicious-cry-12926884195.jpg

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#767 - 2013-12-08 20:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
There's a distinct difference between "not meant to shoot at something" and "artificially made utterly helpless against something". A Titan cannot DD a subcap but it can still lock them and shoot them. The guns do artificially reduced damage, which I also don't agree with (it's a band-aid fix, at best) but at least it can still lock them and shoot at them.

Your link pretty much confirms what I thought. You post on these forums as a joke, trying to troll people with your completely ridiculous posts.
Tawa Suyo
C.O.D.E
#768 - 2013-12-08 20:18:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tawa Suyo
NightmareX wrote:
like i said, you have no idea what the Vindicator is



You keep saying this, how you are an expert on Vindicators and no-one else is.

So... let's do a fun exercise called "Is NightmareX any good at Vindicators?". Feel free to follow along at home.

Firstly, http://i.imgur.com/j82Drsg.png

This is a side by side comparison of two Vindicators, the one on the right is NightmareX's Vindicator (as linked by him previously in this thread). The one on the left is my Vindicator as currently sat in by my alt.

Both Vindicators have HG Slaves and no other implants (obviously I could add all my alts/NightmareX's implants, but I want a fair comparison). Both Vindicators have full mindlinked Armoured Warfare Links and the Interdiction Maneuvers link. Neither Vindicator has drones out.

I have applied a single capital remote rep from a triage archon to each Vindicator.


What difference do we see in the amount tanked?

My Vindicator tanks 31% more (~2500 more per second). This means that it takes 23 seconds of a single triage archon rep for my Vindicator to have made up the difference in EHP, after which it just tanks 31% more with the same DPS.

With all three reps from an archon, my vindicator is better in only 8 seconds.



Do you still think you have any claim to know what you're talking about in regards to Vindicators?
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#769 - 2013-12-08 20:19:46 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
There's a distinct difference between "not meant to shoot at something" and "artificially made utterly helpless against something". A Titan cannot DD a subcap but it can still lock them and shoot them. The guns do artificially reduced damage, which I also don't agree with (it's a band-aid fix, at best) but at least it can still lock them and shoot at them.

Your link pretty much confirms what I thought. You post on these forums as a joke, trying to troll people with your completely ridiculous posts.

Says the guy who can't even find ONE counter to the Vindicator to avoid it's webs. Says enough.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#770 - 2013-12-08 20:23:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Here's how you counter webs:

Don't get in range in the first place, MWD out of range, MJD out of range, neut the ship until its web shuts off, kill the ship.

Despite their varying degrees of effectiveness, I found five counters. How about you?

Also, being able to counter a Vindicator's webs has nothing to do with whether or not dreads should be able to lock sub-BS hulls. How many counters to those webs I can find has nothing to do with your idea being rancid dogshit. Moving the goalposts is bad and you should feel bad for shiptoasting so badly.

Moreover, your posts continue to have a taunting, trolling flavor to them. Are you mad?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#771 - 2013-12-08 20:27:05 UTC
So if CCP made a ship with a +10,000% bonus to gun damage, it wouldn't be overpowered, because you need only counter it with optimal range tracking disruptors, neutralisers, ECM, or running away and not engaging it.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#772 - 2013-12-08 20:30:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
TrouserDeagle wrote:
So if CCP made a ship with a +10,000% bonus to gun damage, it wouldn't be overpowered, because you need only counter it with optimal range tracking disruptors, neutralisers, ECM, or running away and not engaging it.


Please do not attempt to strawman me. Construct a logical counterpoint and then post.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#773 - 2013-12-08 20:31:12 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Tawa Suyo wrote:
You keep saying this, how you are an expert on Vindicators and no-one else is.

Wall of text

First of all, the setup i'm using is not my personal one fyi. It's the alliance setup i'm using except that mine is a little more pimped over the standard alliance fit. Same types of modules are used.

And secondly, if you fight like we do with our Vindicators, your Vindicator with your setup is going to die horribly while ours is going to survive. It's not about how much a Vindicator can tank once carriers is jumped in and have started to rep us as we will have enough carriers to keep ANY Vindicators alive anyways. The point for us is to be able to tank a massive fleet before we have dropped the cyno and jumped in our carriers and then have the time to lock up the Vindicators and get the Capital reps running on our Vindicators.

So that was a fail attemt to make a point, lol. Try better next time.

Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Despite their varying degrees of effectiveness, I found five counters. How about you?

ECM and damps that makes you lock range loltastic and damps that makes you lock time so high that most ships can probably kill you before you have managed to lock anyone else around you?

Make that to 7 counters so far.

TrouserDeagle wrote:
So if CCP made a ship with a +10,000% bonus to gun damage, it wouldn't be overpowered, because you need only counter it with optimal range tracking disruptors, neutralisers, ECM, or running away and not engaging it.

Your point is?

The fact that you compares 10000% bonuses against the 90% web on the Vindicator that is 50% stronger than the 60% webs is quite funny.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#774 - 2013-12-08 20:39:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldensaver
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Here's how you counter webs:

Don't get in range in the first place, MWD out of range, MJD out of range, neut the ship until its web shuts off, kill the ship.

Despite their varying degrees of effectiveness, I found five counters. How about you?

Also, being able to counter a Vindicator's webs has nothing to do with whether or not dreads should be able to lock sub-BS hulls. How many counters to those webs I can find has nothing to do with your idea being rancid dogshit. Moving the goalposts is bad and you should feel bad for shiptoasting so badly.

Moreover, your posts continue to have a taunting, trolling flavor to them. Are you mad?

For the range counter: toe the line between 25 and 40km (point range with links, heat won't last long enough, but the Vindi only needs a cycle or two of webs with heat before he's on top of you). Alright, a decent counter. But you have to be paying a lot of attention, because if you get webbed even once you're done. No ifs ands or buts. You get tagged then there's no escape.

For MWD: Nope. Doesn't work. How many times do we have to say that if you get webbed then the Vindi is going to be going faster than you. Plain and simple. That's it. He's going to be MWDing faster than you. It doesn't matter which ship you're in. An Inteceptor or a Battleship, you're slower than the Vindicator.

For MJD. Alright. A decent counter. It'll work. Just hope he doesn't have a Scram on, though from what I've seen most Vindis don't run scrams.

For Neuts: Nope. Cap booster bitches. Anybody who has a Vindi without one is a ******* ****** and should go back to pre-school. Cap booster is more than enough to keep his guns and webs running.

Kill the ship: He has more DPS than you (barring capitals). He has better range control than you. He has probably about the same tank as you. Odds are unless you're swarming the Vindi, you aren't going to kill him before he kills you. This applies even for everything from T1 frigates to Pirate Battleships. Unless you can stay out of range, you die.

I'm seeing one valid counter here: MJD. That's it.

Edit: I'm stupid and can't count. I definitely confirmed 2 valid counters. Webs and MJDs.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#775 - 2013-12-08 20:43:03 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Here's how you counter webs:

Don't get in range in the first place, MWD out of range, MJD out of range, neut the ship until its web shuts off, kill the ship.

Despite their varying degrees of effectiveness, I found five counters. How about you?

Also, being able to counter a Vindicator's webs has nothing to do with whether or not dreads should be able to lock sub-BS hulls. How many counters to those webs I can find has nothing to do with your idea being rancid dogshit. Moving the goalposts is bad and you should feel bad for shiptoasting so badly.

Moreover, your posts continue to have a taunting, trolling flavor to them. Are you mad?

+1 This is true
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#776 - 2013-12-08 20:46:54 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Goldensaver wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Here's how you counter webs:

Don't get in range in the first place, MWD out of range, MJD out of range, neut the ship until its web shuts off, kill the ship.

Despite their varying degrees of effectiveness, I found five counters. How about you?

Also, being able to counter a Vindicator's webs has nothing to do with whether or not dreads should be able to lock sub-BS hulls. How many counters to those webs I can find has nothing to do with your idea being rancid dogshit. Moving the goalposts is bad and you should feel bad for shiptoasting so badly.

Moreover, your posts continue to have a taunting, trolling flavor to them. Are you mad?

For the range counter: toe the line between 25 and 40km (point range with links, heat won't last long enough, but the Vindi only needs a cycle or two of webs with heat before he's on top of you). Alright, a decent counter. But you have to be paying a lot of attention, because if you get webbed even once you're done. No ifs ands or buts. You get tagged then there's no escape.

For MWD: Nope. Doesn't work. How many times do we have to say that if you get webbed then the Vindi is going to be going faster than you. Plain and simple. That's it. He's going to be MWDing faster than you. It doesn't matter which ship you're in. An Inteceptor or a Battleship, you're slower than the Vindicator.

For MJD. Alright. A decent counter. It'll work. Just hope he doesn't have a Scram on, though from what I've seen most Vindis don't run scrams.

For Neuts: Nope. Cap booster bitches. Anybody who has a Vindi without one is a ******* ****** and should go back to pre-school. Cap booster is more than enough to keep his guns and webs running.

Kill the ship: He has more DPS than you (barring capitals). He has better range control than you. He has probably about the same tank as you. Odds are unless you're swarming the Vindi, you aren't going to kill him before he kills you. This applies even for everything from T1 frigates to Pirate Battleships. Unless you can stay out of range, you die.

I'm seeing one valid counter here: MJD. That's it.

MWD doesn't work and that's the whole point that the Vindicator will have you pinned down even if you use the MWD. The MJD is a very good counter as no Vindicators fits Warp Scramblers. Neuts wont take effect on a Vindicator right away. It takes ~1 and a half minute before the Vindicator will struggle with it's cap and where he will lose the ability to effectively use it's guns and webs after a Bhaalgorn have started to neut you.

The point is that if the Vindicator can't shoot you, it doesn't matter if the Vindicator have you 90% webbed or even 100% webbed as you are going to kill the Vindicator before the Vindicator will kill anyone else then.

So yes, neuts will kill the Vindicators ability to effectively use the guns even with cap boosters. I have tried this so many times against neuting ships that i know how long time it takes a Bhaalgorn for example to take full effect on a Vindicator.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#777 - 2013-12-08 20:51:49 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Here's how you counter webs:

Don't get in range in the first place, MWD out of range, MJD out of range, neut the ship until its web shuts off, kill the ship.

Despite their varying degrees of effectiveness, I found five counters. How about you?

Also, being able to counter a Vindicator's webs has nothing to do with whether or not dreads should be able to lock sub-BS hulls. How many counters to those webs I can find has nothing to do with your idea being rancid dogshit. Moving the goalposts is bad and you should feel bad for shiptoasting so badly.

Moreover, your posts continue to have a taunting, trolling flavor to them. Are you mad?

For the range counter: toe the line between 25 and 40km (point range with links, heat won't last long enough, but the Vindi only needs a cycle or two of webs with heat before he's on top of you). Alright, a decent counter. But you have to be paying a lot of attention, because if you get webbed even once you're done. No ifs ands or buts. You get tagged then there's no escape.

For MWD: Nope. Doesn't work. How many times do we have to say that if you get webbed then the Vindi is going to be going faster than you. Plain and simple. That's it. He's going to be MWDing faster than you. It doesn't matter which ship you're in. An Inteceptor or a Battleship, you're slower than the Vindicator.

For MJD. Alright. A decent counter. It'll work. Just hope he doesn't have a Scram on, though from what I've seen most Vindis don't run scrams.

For Neuts: Nope. Cap booster bitches. Anybody who has a Vindi without one is a ******* ****** and should go back to pre-school. Cap booster is more than enough to keep his guns and webs running.

Kill the ship: He has more DPS than you (barring capitals). He has better range control than you. He has probably about the same tank as you. Odds are unless you're swarming the Vindi, you aren't going to kill him before he kills you. This applies even for everything from T1 frigates to Pirate Battleships. Unless you can stay out of range, you die.

I'm seeing one valid counter here: MJD. That's it.

MWD doesn't work and that's the whole point that the Vindicator will have you pinned down even if you use the MWD. The MJD is a very good counter as no Vindicators fits Warp Scramblers. Neuts wont take effect on a Vindicator right away. It takes ~2 minutes before the Vindicator will struggle with it's cap and where he will lose the ability to effectively use it's guns and webs after a Bhaalgorn have started to neut you.

The point is that if the Vindicator can't shoot you, it doesn't matter if the Vindicator have you 90% webbed or even 100% webbed as you are going to kill the Vindicator before the Vindicator will kill anyone else then.

So yes, neuts will kill the Vindicators ability to effectively use the guns even with cap boosters. I have tried this so many times against neuting ships that i know how long time it takes a Bhaalgorn for example to take full effect on my Vindicator.


How has this 1200+ DPS Vindi not killed its target in 2 minutes, and if it hasn't, how isn't it so close to death that it'll be dead regardless? That's 144k EHP. No neut ship will have much more EHP than that if it's soloing. At that point you'll only need a couple more gun cycles to finish the job.

Of course if you mean in fleet fights, where's the Vindi's cap support? Logi exists, and if you're in a fleet you should be able to press the magical "needs cap" button to wish all your problems away.
Tawa Suyo
C.O.D.E
#778 - 2013-12-08 20:56:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tawa Suyo
NightmareX wrote:
And secondly, if you fight like we do with our Vindicators, your Vindicator with your setup is going to die horribly while ours is going to survive. It's not about how much a Vindicator can tank once carriers is jumped in and have started to rep us as we will have enough carriers to keep ANY Vindicators alive anyways. The point for us is to be able to tank a massive fleet before we have dropped the cyno and jumped in our carriers and then have the time to lock up the Vindicators and get the Capital reps running on our Vindicators.



You seem to have missed that active hardeners can be heated, given them roughly the same EHP.

But I mean, what you said isn't true in any "could go either way" brawl anyway. EHP is basically a bad measure of tank and you're unable to work this out. However, for your benefit;

http://i.imgur.com/J7hXads.png


Look ma, 15% more repped and the same ehp. (and can still be heated to even more EHP)

Feel free to try and find some other excuse why you're bad. I suggest "it's not my fit, it's just the fit I fly and linked because I was so proud of it".



Oh, and you do know that the super carriers you keep mentioning literally can't kill anything smaller than a battleship?
Well, unless you 90% web it anyway. They got nerfed so that this was the case...
Naomi Anthar
#779 - 2013-12-08 20:58:05 UTC
NightmareX and Nyancat taught me so much in so short time.

Guys Vindi is **** , i can see this now. Ship is so weak .

It needs serious buffs - first improve cap so it doesn't get "owned" by curse or bhaal.
2nd - improve tracking bonus even further - because obviously tds **** on it.
3rd increase web bonus to 15% per level as obviously it does not slow down enough and it's on verge of being useless.
4th increase lock range so it won't get damped aka rendered useless.



Really THANK YOU.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#780 - 2013-12-08 20:59:29 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
How has this 1200+ DPS Vindi not killed its target in 2 minutes, and if it hasn't, how isn't it so close to death that it'll be dead regardless? That's 144k EHP. No neut ship will have much more EHP than that if it's soloing. At that point you'll only need a couple more gun cycles to finish the job.

Of course if you mean in fleet fights, where's the Vindi's cap support? Logi exists, and if you're in a fleet you should be able to press the magical "needs cap" button to wish all your problems away.

If you get tracking disrupted and if the other ships you are fighting against is active tanked and are orbiting you, it will mean your damage will be so low that the active tanked ships actually can tank you.

Just this simple thing can a Curse do under the tracking of the Vindicator. It can neut me and tracking disrupt me to the point that my damage is low enough that the Curse can active tank me.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama