These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[NERF] Serpentis web bonus change

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#741 - 2013-12-08 12:44:49 UTC
My Scythe Fleet which I use for shooting BS's goes 970m/s and has a 67m sig res. With 90% webs, it goes 97m/s and still has 67m sig res.

Hm.

Yeah, I really have a spare res damp, ECm and whatever the hell else I'm supposed to have.

(oh, right, lets admit NoghtmareX and that dude from poo repo never solo)

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Sparkus Volundar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#742 - 2013-12-08 14:19:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Sparkus Volundar
Let's take the Bhaalgorn example with an Atron. "It has long ranged webs and neuts".

Atron goes 525 m/s and with a T2 AB on it, it goes 1382 m/s.

A perma-neuted (thus AB off) Atron with four 60% webs on it, whether from Bhaals or other ships, goes 55 m/s. An Atron using it's AB that is webbed by two 90% webs goes 30 m/s. Whether it was an Atron or some other ship, the ratio of the final speeds to each other would be the same.

In other words, a Vindi with two webs is offering almost twice the range control and aid to damage application to a Bhaal alongside four 60% webs. That's when we assume there are no neuts or other webs alongside the Vindi, which would make things even more in favour of the Vindi.

.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#743 - 2013-12-08 15:09:56 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:

As for scan res damps, they do sweet **** all if he targets first *or* he gets mostly targeted before the damps hit. The only exception to this is if you're using them in tandem with ECM, but how many ships (and pilots) should equal a single Vindicator?


They're actually very good counters, but they're just a generic counter to any ship other than those with lol ewar immunity. Existence of damps, ecm and neuts doesn't mean webs and 90% webs aren't broken.


Also webs have 5 second cycle time.

Large energy transfers have 5 second cycle time.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#744 - 2013-12-08 16:39:18 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:

As for scan res damps, they do sweet **** all if he targets first *or* he gets mostly targeted before the damps hit. The only exception to this is if you're using them in tandem with ECM, but how many ships (and pilots) should equal a single Vindicator?


They're actually very good counters, but they're just a generic counter to any ship other than those with lol ewar immunity. Existence of damps, ecm and neuts doesn't mean webs and 90% webs aren't broken.


Also webs have 5 second cycle time.

Large energy transfers have 5 second cycle time.


Webs also don't take a lot of cap.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#745 - 2013-12-08 17:07:07 UTC
in fact thinking about other e-war like ecm/ TD's etc.... it makes me think webs should also be moved towards the same area.

so normal webs could be fairly weak on normal ships and much more cap heavy on use

-T1 webs
30 - 35% strength 9-11km range cpu and cap reductions based on roles of metas

Faction webs
37- 40% strength 11-13km range

T2 web
42.5% strength 9km range requires prop jamming skill lv5 higher cpu and cap requirements

Hyena/Recons
cap reduction bonuses and range

Serpentis line
7.5% web strength bonus with emphasis on shields and speed

Blood Raider line
10% web range bonus
10% neut strength and range bonus

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Saeger1737
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#746 - 2013-12-08 17:49:03 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
My Scythe Fleet which I use for shooting BS's goes 970m/s and has a 67m sig res. With 90% webs, it goes 97m/s and still has 67m sig res.

Hm.

Yeah, I really have a spare res damp, ECm and whatever the hell else I'm supposed to have.

(oh, right, lets admit NoghtmareX and that dude from poo repo never solo)


I never solo huh? heres proof i have check for yourself

MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#747 - 2013-12-08 18:34:59 UTC
Sparkus Volundar wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

But i have given you the fully detailed arguments


They may be fully detailed but they've been based on very poor understandings of game mechanics, flailed all over the place in the face of the logic of others and in general, been a thoroughly entertaining to read.

I bet I'm not the only person that returns to this thread just to see what you write next.

Still doesn't change the fact that the issues some players have here can be completely fixed by not allowing dreads to lock cruisers, destroyers and frigs. By doing that, you still keeps the dreads as good as they are meant to be and at the same time keeps the Vindicator unique.

Profit???

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#748 - 2013-12-08 18:48:16 UTC
Saeger1737 wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
My Scythe Fleet which I use for shooting BS's goes 970m/s and has a 67m sig res. With 90% webs, it goes 97m/s and still has 67m sig res.

Hm.

Yeah, I really have a spare res damp, ECm and whatever the hell else I'm supposed to have.

(oh, right, lets admit NoghtmareX and that dude from poo repo never solo)


I never solo huh? heres proof i have check for yourself


I had something typed up, but I'm pretty sure we're not supposed to discuss killboards. As it is I'll just say it looks like you prey upon idiots, retards and noobships for your solo experience, usually in a DD, probably with OGBs. Sorry, but it hardly looks impressive. Do you ever fight decent players?
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#749 - 2013-12-08 19:09:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyancat Audeles
I think one people are missing out on is that damps can absolutely destroy these ships. Also, you people need to learn to range control. If you get within 14km of a Vindi, you don't know how to PvP.

One could also make it so Serpentis ships can only fit 1 web at a time.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#750 - 2013-12-08 19:20:12 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
I think one people are missing out on is that damps can absolutely destroy these ships. Also, you people need to learn to range control. If you get within 14km of a Vindi, you don't know how to PvP.

One could also make it so Serpentis ships can only fit 1 web at a time.

Damps can absolutely destroy almost any ship. Though it's slightly easier with the low lockrange of Serp ships, it's not exactly unique to them.

And as for 14km range, you clearly don't real situation PvP. OH webs with skirmish links (as I have said about a billion times, everyone and their mom has OGBs) get 24km range. So if you drift within 24km you get webbed, slow down to hopeless levels, and die.

I don't like the 1 web per ship limitation, it's arbitrary and is an artificial nerf to Serp ships. Honestly better to be a slightly nerfed strength. At least then it's obvious and less arbitrary. 10% per level down to 5% or 7.5% per level. That's still incredibly more powerful than the base 60% web.
Naomi Anthar
#751 - 2013-12-08 19:24:23 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
I think one people are missing out on is that damps can absolutely destroy these ships. Also, you people need to learn to range control. If you get within 14km of a Vindi, you don't know how to PvP.

One could also make it so Serpentis ships can only fit 1 web at a time.


Like every single other ship ? You are brilliant theorycrafter ...

Truth is that NightmareX and Nyancat are best proofs that Vindi and serpentis need nerf.

They have no idea how ships work in this game and yet they still do well.

Kinda against any logic , right ?

What we will hear now that TD and neuts destroy vindi ? I heard they destroy every turret ship. And no they don't destroy vindi who will hit anyway with 2x 90% webs target wont move so tracking and range wont be an issue.

Yes Vindi is immune to curse.
Naomi Anthar
#752 - 2013-12-08 19:26:06 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
I think one people are missing out on is that damps can absolutely destroy these ships. Also, you people need to learn to range control. If you get within 14km of a Vindi, you don't know how to PvP.

One could also make it so Serpentis ships can only fit 1 web at a time.

Damps can absolutely destroy almost any ship. Though it's slightly easier with the low lockrange of Serp ships, it's not exactly unique to them.

And as for 14km range, you clearly don't real situation PvP. OH webs with skirmish links (as I have said about a billion times, everyone and their mom has OGBs) get 24km range. So if you drift within 24km you get webbed, slow down to hopeless levels, and die.

I don't like the 1 web per ship limitation, it's arbitrary and is an artificial nerf to Serp ships. Honestly better to be a slightly nerfed strength. At least then it's obvious and less arbitrary. 10% per level down to 5% or 7.5% per level. That's still incredibly more powerful than the base 60% web.


But you must understand that NightmareX will even think Vindi will be useless with 9,99% web bonus per level. Obviously ship will be useless and next Megathron ... sigh
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#753 - 2013-12-08 19:39:47 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Like every single other ship ? You are brilliant theorycrafter ...

Truth is that NightmareX and Nyancat are best proofs that Vindi and serpentis need nerf.

They have no idea how ships work in this game and yet they still do well.

Kinda against any logic , right ?

What we will hear now that TD and neuts destroy vindi ? I heard they destroy every turret ship. And no they don't destroy vindi who will hit anyway with 2x 90% webs target wont move so tracking and range wont be an issue.

Yes Vindi is immune to curse.

No, me and him are the proof that the Vindicator's 90 webber isn't the issue here, also that the Vindicator as it is now is fine.

There are 2 issues here. 1. Noobs who doesn't have a freaking clue what so ever to counter a Vindicator. There are several counters that basicly makes a Vindicator a dying brick. 2. The 2nd issue is that the dreads should not be able to lock cruiser, destroyers and frig sized ships.

3. Profit?

This basicly makes it so that no one will cry over losing a cruiser, destroyer or a frig anymore to a dread because some Vindicators webbed you and at the same time still keeps the Vindicator good at what's made to do. Also that it can stay unique like the other pirate battleships.

I find it quite funny that no one have ever bothered to answer me on this so far. Maybe that's because you are horribly at doing PVP and can't come up with an idea to counter the Vindicator and have to cry to CCP to nerf the ship rather than you adapting to the Vindicator's uniqueness / advantage.

And to the last thing, that statement is the only proof that we needs to confirm that you have no clues how the Curse or the Vindicator works. So thanks for that.

Naomi Anthar wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
I think one people are missing out on is that damps can absolutely destroy these ships. Also, you people need to learn to range control. If you get within 14km of a Vindi, you don't know how to PvP.

One could also make it so Serpentis ships can only fit 1 web at a time.

Damps can absolutely destroy almost any ship. Though it's slightly easier with the low lockrange of Serp ships, it's not exactly unique to them.

And as for 14km range, you clearly don't real situation PvP. OH webs with skirmish links (as I have said about a billion times, everyone and their mom has OGBs) get 24km range. So if you drift within 24km you get webbed, slow down to hopeless levels, and die.

I don't like the 1 web per ship limitation, it's arbitrary and is an artificial nerf to Serp ships. Honestly better to be a slightly nerfed strength. At least then it's obvious and less arbitrary. 10% per level down to 5% or 7.5% per level. That's still incredibly more powerful than the base 60% web.


But you must understand that NightmareX will even think Vindi will be useless with 9,99% web bonus per level. Obviously ship will be useless and next Megathron ... sigh

No, the Vindicator will be useless if it can't slow down the ships so much that it WONT be dangerous for those who are webbed by the Vindicator. It SHOULD be extremely dangerous to be webbed by the Vindicator. That's the whole point with the ship.

A 75% web strength is something everyone is going to laugh at as alot of ships can gets under the Vindicator's tracking really easily then. The point with the Vindicator is that no ships should have it easy to get under the Vindicator's tracking and webbing, not even frigs.

And this is something you simply doesn't understand, because like i said, you have no idea what the Vindicator is and what it's supposed to do.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#754 - 2013-12-08 19:55:35 UTC
NightmareX wrote:

No, the Vindicator will be useless if it can't slow down the ships so much that it WONT be dangerous for those who are webbed by the Vindicator. It SHOULD be extremely dangerous to be webbed by the Vindicator. That's the whole point with the ship.

A 75% web strength is something everyone is going to laugh at as alot of ships can gets under the Vindicator's tracking really easily then. The point with the Vindicator is that no ships should have it easy to get under the Vindicator's tracking and webbing, not even frigs.

And this is something you simply doesn't understand, because like i said, you have no idea what the Vindicator is and what it's supposed to do.


Being able to wreck any ship smaller than itself is overpowered, whether you say it's 'the point' of the ship or not.
Saeger1737
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#755 - 2013-12-08 19:58:52 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
I think one people are missing out on is that damps can absolutely destroy these ships. Also, you people need to learn to range control. If you get within 14km of a Vindi, you don't know how to PvP.

One could also make it so Serpentis ships can only fit 1 web at a time.


Like every single other ship ? You are brilliant theorycrafter ...

Truth is that NightmareX and Nyancat are best proofs that Vindi and serpentis need nerf.

They have no idea how ships work in this game and yet they still do well.

Kinda against any logic , right ?

What we will hear now that TD and neuts destroy vindi ? I heard they destroy every turret ship. And no they don't destroy vindi who will hit anyway with 2x 90% webs target wont move so tracking and range wont be an issue.

Yes Vindi is immune to curse.


Vindi isn't curse immune you obviously don't know how to PvP properly so shut it.

MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#756 - 2013-12-08 19:59:01 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Being able to wreck any ship smaller than itself is overpowered, whether you say it's 'the point' of the ship or not.

For normal ships yes, not for ships with special abilities.

By that statement, we can pretty much say that CCP should nerf Super Carriers to not be able to wreck any ship smaller than itself. Or let Titans wrecks carriers, dreads and super carriers as they are smaller ships than the Titan itself. So it must be overpowered, right?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#757 - 2013-12-08 19:59:32 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

No, the Vindicator will be useless if it can't slow down the ships so much that it WONT be dangerous for those who are webbed by the Vindicator. It SHOULD be extremely dangerous to be webbed by the Vindicator. That's the whole point with the ship.

A 75% web strength is something everyone is going to laugh at as alot of ships can gets under the Vindicator's tracking really easily then. The point with the Vindicator is that no ships should have it easy to get under the Vindicator's tracking and webbing, not even frigs.

And this is something you simply doesn't understand, because like i said, you have no idea what the Vindicator is and what it's supposed to do.


Being able to wreck any ship smaller than itself is overpowered, whether you say it's 'the point' of the ship or not.

For normal ships yes, not for ships with special abilities.


Calling the ship special doesn't make it okay to break everything.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#758 - 2013-12-08 20:01:41 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Calling the ship special doesn't make it okay to break everything.

Read my edited reply over.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#759 - 2013-12-08 20:04:16 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Calling the ship special doesn't make it okay to break everything.

Read my edited reply over.


It's still dumb, no matter how many times I read it.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#760 - 2013-12-08 20:04:22 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

No, the Vindicator will be useless if it can't slow down the ships so much that it WONT be dangerous for those who are webbed by the Vindicator. It SHOULD be extremely dangerous to be webbed by the Vindicator. That's the whole point with the ship.

A 75% web strength is something everyone is going to laugh at as alot of ships can gets under the Vindicator's tracking really easily then. The point with the Vindicator is that no ships should have it easy to get under the Vindicator's tracking and webbing, not even frigs.

And this is something you simply doesn't understand, because like i said, you have no idea what the Vindicator is and what it's supposed to do.


Being able to wreck any ship smaller than itself is overpowered, whether you say it's 'the point' of the ship or not.


By this logic, cruisers shouldn't be able to destroy frigates, and Battlecruisers shouldn't be able to destroy cruisers or frigates, and battleships shouldn't be able to destroy battlecruisers, cruisers, or frigates. I see a flaw in your logic....

A ship fit according to it's bonuses to perform in a specific role is just that.

Any non-Minmatar T1 EWAR frigate for 2 million ISK can completely disable the Vindicator. You could damp it to the point where it can't target beyond a couple kilometers at most, or where it takes too long to event target anything. You could tracking disrupt it to the point where it couldn't hit a dread, or beyond a couple hundred meters. You could simply jam it out.