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[NERF] Serpentis web bonus change

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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#661 - 2013-12-07 00:01:48 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Nobody in this thread has said that pirate tiercide is around the corner.

That's all fine and dandy. However......https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3973319#post3973319

I'll guess the same applies to you.



Im not sure you know what "cream your pants" means. Maybe once you hit puberty?
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#662 - 2013-12-07 00:05:37 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Michael Harari wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Nobody in this thread has said that pirate tiercide is around the corner.

That's all fine and dandy. However......https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3973319#post3973319

I'll guess the same applies to you.



Im not sure you know what "cream your pants" means. Maybe once you hit puberty?

Or 'wet your pants', or 'poop your pants'. Happy?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#663 - 2013-12-07 00:16:53 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Tawa Suyo wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Within 15k, for applying DPS, nope, Vindi is pretty much the top tier. Kinda how it was designed to be. Such a bad thing that something is doing the job it's supposed to.



But no-one has suggested nerfing the DPS. In fact, we suggested buffing the application via an extra tracking bonus as one of the alternatives to the web bonus...



Oh, and check my corp history, I used to be in SC. Did I imagine the vindis in fleet with me? Not that I'm sure how your "I fly vindicators all the time" line is helping your point. It's almost like you have a vested interested in protecting your favourite toy... Hardly unbiased balance input.



And I've posted multiple times on how to counter them, but clearly reading is hard.


I think a few members of SC are just sore they lost their vindi's.

Please expand on how SC is the end all authority for exploits? Watch Out PL, new kid on the block.

Gonna say it again, a dread doesn't need a single web to hit a target. It just needs a moment of carelessness. Vindi's just increase the available window.

Risk Free PVP bro's.


I can confirm that Shadow cartel members are all quite poor and never ever use stupidly expensive ships.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#664 - 2013-12-07 00:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
I can confirm that Shadow cartel members are all quite poor and never ever use stupidly expensive ships.

It's something else by using one of those stupidly expensive ships rather than being butthurt over losing one of them or for being butthurt over losing something expensive to a Vindicator.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#665 - 2013-12-07 00:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Nag'o
Michael Harari wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3932036#post3932036

Its literally in this very thread, which maybe you should read.

Also in this thread (on the very first page in fact), is Fozzie saying that the dd and vindicator are too strong, and are too strong because of their web bonus.

CCP Fozzie is not saying they are going to add something to compensate for a web nerf.

EDIT: And this is not a matter of it being unique, it's about it having a well defined role. The Vindicator is a strong tackler and brawler. It's useless against long range and can be easily dampened to uselessness. It does not need a nerf as this unintended price crush will certainly prove.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#666 - 2013-12-07 00:51:12 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Nag'o wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3932036#post3932036

Its literally in this very thread, which maybe you should read.

Also in this thread (on the very first page in fact), is Fozzie saying that the dd and vindicator are too strong, and are too strong because of their web bonus.

CCP Fozzie is not saying they are going to add something to compensate for a web nerf.

Witch makes a Vindicator the same as a Navy Mega with a lil more DPS and another paintjob.

Either CCP removes the web bonus and make a new good bonus up for that, or they simply don't touch the web bonuses on those ships as that would make them obsolete.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#667 - 2013-12-07 00:54:28 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
I can confirm that Shadow cartel members are all quite poor and never ever use stupidly expensive ships.

It's something else by using one of those stupidly expensive ships rather than being butthurt over losing one of them or for being butthurt over losing something expensive to a Vindicator.



You got me.

We are actually super butthurt about losing on average about half a vindicator a month. I mean.. thats like a billion a month /o\

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#668 - 2013-12-07 00:56:15 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
I can confirm that Shadow cartel members are all quite poor and never ever use stupidly expensive ships.

It's something else by using one of those stupidly expensive ships rather than being butthurt over losing one of them or for being butthurt over losing something expensive to a Vindicator.



You got me.

We are actually super butthurt about losing on average about half a vindicator a month. I mean.. thats like a billion a month /o\

I didn't say you was any of that. I just pointed out some differences on those things.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#669 - 2013-12-07 00:59:25 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
I can confirm that Shadow cartel members are all quite poor and never ever use stupidly expensive ships.

It's something else by using one of those stupidly expensive ships rather than being butthurt over losing one of them or for being butthurt over losing something expensive to a Vindicator.



You got me.

We are actually super butthurt about losing on average about half a vindicator a month. I mean.. thats like a billion a month /o\

I didn't say you was any of that. I just pointed out some differences on those things.



Well in my defense, your sentence up there doesn't make any sense what so ever so i sort of just guessed what you meant.

Are you instead suggesting SC members don't use vindies? :P

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#670 - 2013-12-07 01:08:33 UTC
I like how nightmarex is able to believe both

1) The vindicator is obsolete without 90% webs
and simultaneously believe
2) 90% webs dont do anything that 60% webs dont

Is suddenly spaceships always at war with eastasia?
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#671 - 2013-12-07 01:09:29 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Well in my defense, your sentence up there doesn't make any sense what so ever so i sort of just guessed what you meant.

Are you instead suggesting SC members don't use vindies? :P

We know you use Vindicators. But that's not the point. The point is that you are paying alot to get a ship that is good at DPS and web power in the same way as you pay alot for a Bhaalgorn to get a ship that is good at web range and neuting.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#672 - 2013-12-07 01:13:06 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Michael Harari wrote:
I like how nightmarex is able to believe both

1) The vindicator is obsolete without 90% webs
and simultaneously believe
2) 90% webs dont do anything that 60% webs dont

Is suddenly spaceships always at war with eastasia?

1. Tell me what makes the Vindicator unique?

Without it's uniqueness, it's just a glorified Navy Megatyhron with some few extra % more DPS.

2. The Vindicator does the work alone instead of using 4-5x Megathrons to get it to the same level of speed. Or to the same level of speed that the speed doesn't matters anylonger. That's it's whole concept.

Again, we pay alot to get a ship that is supposed to be many times more powerfull in different things than the normal ships.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#673 - 2013-12-07 01:26:41 UTC
NightmareX wrote:

2. The Vindicator does the work alone instead of using 4-5x Megathrons to get it to the same level of speed. Or to the same level of speed that the speed doesn't matters anylonger. That's it's whole concept.


You can check if you dont believe me, but it makes quite a large difference in applied dps.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#674 - 2013-12-07 01:33:56 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

2. The Vindicator does the work alone instead of using 4-5x Megathrons to get it to the same level of speed. Or to the same level of speed that the speed doesn't matters anylonger. That's it's whole concept.


You can check if you dont believe me, but it makes quite a large difference in applied dps.

If you think about dreads, then maybe. But that should not matter as dreads isn't supposed to be taken into a discussion about how to balance pirate ships.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
KatanTharkay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#675 - 2013-12-07 01:38:47 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Man, if I knew that posting a long winded version of "we are thinking about what we might change someday in this area" would generate a thread this amusing I would have done it earlier.

Uniqueness is good, doubly so for pirate ships. The flavour of the Serpentis line is very strong (in fact it is the line we tend to use as the example of what we want to replicate with the other pirate factions). We are not going to take that away.

Why is this thread still going on?
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#676 - 2013-12-07 01:39:17 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Anyways, lets have a look at the stats on the Vindicator i use now.

Here is my current Vindicator setup: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7309753/Bilder/Spill/EVE%20Online/Annet/Vindicator.png

Now lets put that setup over to a Megathron Navy Issue with an extra damage mod: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7309753/Bilder/Spill/EVE%20Online/Annet/MegathronNavyIssue.png

In other words, a Vindicator will be a Megathron Navy Issue v2.0 if the web bonus gets removed. Yes, i use the same drones and implants on both ships.

So yes, the Vindicator will be obsolete as no one will ever buy a 1.1 bill isk ship just to get another paintjob and an extra med slot if the web bonus gets removed. Everyone will buy the Navy Mega to half the price of the Vindicator then.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Naomi Anthar
#677 - 2013-12-07 01:51:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Anthar
NightmareX wrote:
Anyways, lets have a look at the stats on the Vindicator i use now.

Here is my current Vindicator setup: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7309753/Bilder/Spill/EVE%20Online/Annet/Vindicator.png

Now lets put that setup over to a Megathron Navy Mega with an extra damage mod: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7309753/Bilder/Spill/EVE%20Online/Annet/MegathronNavyIssue.png

In other words, a Vindicator will be a Megathron Navy Issue v2.0 if the web bonus gets removed. Yes, i use the same drones and implants on both ships.

So yes, the Vindicator will be obsolete as no one will ever buy a 1.1 bill isk ship just to get another paintjob and an extra med slot if the web bonus gets removed. Everyone will buy the Navy Mega to half the price of the Vindicator then.


Good at last Mega Navy will not be Vindi version 0.0000065 alfa. After all Mega Navy is also expensive and faction ship. +1

Ah and don't worry price will drop to ~~425kk like for rattle and we will use them en mass.

You are speaking such BS dude ... you think that Vindi hull is sold by NPCs with fixed price of 1.1 B ... market put them at that price tag cuz they are op ;>. Damn sorry but you sound really stupid here. stop xdd

I can give you for your Vindi 400kk , contract it to this character ingame. Thanks.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#678 - 2013-12-07 02:00:10 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Naomi Anthar wrote:
You are speaking such BS dude ... you think that Vindi hull is sold by NPCs with fixed price of 1.1 B ... market put them at that price tag cuz they are op ;>. Damn sorry but you sound really stupid here. stop xdd

I can give you for your Vindi 400kk , contract it to this character ingame. Thanks.

But you are still paying 500 mill isk extra over the Navy Mega just to get the web bonus. At least, put the price on the Vindi up another bill isk if you think the web bonus is so powerfull. Because i'll rather see the price go up on the Vindicator instead of destroying the Vindicator by removing the only bonus that makes it unique.

And no, one will be able to buy my Vindicator as it stays with me until it's death. I have had this Vindicator for over one and a half year. It have survived alot of things and it have scored me around 250 kill so far.

Anyways, all have been said and been pointed out why the web bonus on the Vindicator will stay. Nothing more needs to be said about that until next time a dev says anything about the webbers or the webbers on Serpentis ships. So nothing more will be said from me at this time.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#679 - 2013-12-07 02:00:43 UTC
KatanTharkay wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Man, if I knew that posting a long winded version of "we are thinking about what we might change someday in this area" would generate a thread this amusing I would have done it earlier.

Uniqueness is good, doubly so for pirate ships. The flavour of the Serpentis line is very strong (in fact it is the line we tend to use as the example of what we want to replicate with the other pirate factions). We are not going to take that away.

Why is this thread still going on?

For the same reason the ship market value is still dropping: speculations.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#680 - 2013-12-07 02:38:29 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

2. The Vindicator does the work alone instead of using 4-5x Megathrons to get it to the same level of speed. Or to the same level of speed that the speed doesn't matters anylonger. That's it's whole concept.


You can check if you dont believe me, but it makes quite a large difference in applied dps.

If you think about dreads, then maybe. But that should not matter as dreads isn't supposed to be taken into a discussion about how to balance pirate ships.


Ewar is a force multiplier..

when you give a force multiplier to a ship.. It needs to be balanced around how it multiplies force..

Letting dreadnaughts apply 10000 dps to things instead of 1000 is one hell of a force multiplier.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish