Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Standard CCP method of fixing things is to simply throw them out the window, so I'm not seeing anything abnormal here.





Public testing & listening to player feedback before making an arbitrary decision and shoving it down everyone's throat goes against everything CCP believes in, you know that.

Think your score card is broken, bro. Mind Games. was never part of this thread. A few members of Mind Games. are fond of our vindicators. How's Blink going for ya Ueber?

I don't speak for Nightmare, and he certainly doesn't speak for me. I'd never post such direct information about our operations as he has. I nearly convo'd him earlier and asked him not to. Seems like I should have. I also don't argue with the Holy Sword of Great Justice of mathematics that theory crafters who've never flown the ship swear by. It's not worth my time. Show me where you've flown the ship. I know Ueber has, but I'm fairly certain several people who are so against the webs haven't, so have no idea how that ship operates from the other side of it.


Regardless, Question still stands: How often do the people complaining about the vindicator use it? And the few that do, how?


Which also brings another question: How many ways do you need to be able to counter a ship before you don't consider it OP? How many drawbacks does it need?


Complaining that a ship doing exactly what it was designed to do, how it was designed to, and doing it really well is really pretty silly. The Vindi's effective engagement range is about 15k, and that's pushing it. Yes, it webs farther with faction webs and links, but large blasters with void are really bad at that range, if not because your target is moving too much then because you are, trying to move around the battle field.



Last I checked, Vindicators weren't running rampant around all of Eve, an unstoppable plague damning the rest the galaxy to darkness and despair. They are something you see in very specific roles. Outside of those roles, they are shiny kill mails.
Unless I'm mistaken and the great Vindication has begun? In which case, lemme know.

I mean, now someone is suggesting nerf the recons too?

The same guy I asked how often he flew any of the ships he's so adamantly speaking against and didn't answer?

EDIT: An Nightmare, whom I've already stated doesn't speak for me.
Well, at least he flies recons... some.



IDK about you, but I REALLY don't want every ship to be the same ship with a different skin. I'd much rather play a game that has a huge amount of variety.


I do fly dreads. I do fly Vindicators. I do fly Logistics, links, triage, slow cats, recons, blah blah blah. If not all of them on this char, then on my alt. I'm not hiding anything. My eveboards are public, as are my alts. I make mistakes, lose ships for stupid reasons, miss fights cause I hesitate. But I've flown the ships before I start talking. The vindicator is one of my favorite ships, but it's also one of the most gut wrenching. There is so much at risk when vindicators hit the field. Vindi's have many of the same risk factor as caps.... with 1/5th the ehp.


Vindicators, serpentis web bonuses, are not a problem. They are a well known bonus that functions in a very finite range that is also open and vulnerable to every counter Eve can offer. They are meant to be finely tuned weapons of war that answer to no one in their specific role. Really tough ships.... but killable, and rather easily outside that role. Pretty much any other game, there are enemies that don't back down, don't just roll over and die for you. The Pirate ships are supposed to be that line of ships in Eve. Killable.... but a pilot had better come prepared. All of them have ways to be countered. And yes, that way to counter is sometimes just not fighting them, waiting for a more opportune battle. Some of them need some serious love. But the balancing of the Pirate ships isn't in nerfing the few that are working well. The Saber didn't get nerfed into the ground cause it was working well. All the others were modified, then they were all buffed with the launcher changes. But nerfing the few that are actually working, and working well is not the answer. Yes, there are definitely some concerns in how things stack in Eve. It's pretty silly that 10 webs can't web something down to 1m/s, or dead still. That's the fault of bad stacking mechanics though, not a ship line that has a strong set of bonuses.

Such as?

...

Lots of people in SC? Seeing how they are the ones i talk to the most?

Do i have to list names?

it all boils down to the fact that:

1. The 90% web bonus is a statistic that not only experienced pilots can use (some frigs/cruisers have it too!)
2. It's only on ships that you pay that little extra isk for
3. Not all people will use it for dreads, and the ones that do, if this gets nerfed, will just use rapiers/lokis in the future and take more of them.

Overall, the 90% web bonus is balanced out by the fact that if you bring some neuts or ECM (Which is overpowered too), those webs won't be working for long!

3+ webs on a single target is not very Eve-like. Alas, 1m/s is 13-times better than 13m/s at 0km distance only. If you want a real effect difference calculation put this on the turret tracking formula (missile speed effect is capped).

Setting aside the question of whether you're correct about "3+" webs or not, hopefully it’s clear to you that with 2 webs, the difference is unusually high. If you’re unable to conceptualise how these speed differences affect things across a range of hulls, turrets and engagement scenarios, the tracking formula will indeed be able to help.

1. You clealy aren't playing EVE if you actually believes that the Daredevil is powerfull just because of the web. Infact, it's not really that good against any frigs if it's good frig pilots who are flying those ships against a Daredevil.

2. The problem is that the Vindicator or any of the other Serpentis ships will not be what they are made to do if their web bonus gets removed. Web bonus is just a bonus in the same way as neut or ECM bonuses is. In fact, neuting and ECM'ing is way more powerfull than 90% web is in any situations as both can shut your ship completely down, while the webs just makes your ship slower.

3. The point here is that yes, you will have a problem to bring enough webs to get to the same level of web power as 2-3 Vindicators do. However, the speed will be so low after 6-8 Megathrons or whatever ship that have 60% web power anyways that any ships will hit them no matter what. If a ship is doing 15 m/s or 25 m/s wont matter as you will get blapped no matter what.

That's the whole point, that the speed have gone under a specific number in speed and when it comes under that specific number in speed, it doesn't matter anylonger on how your speed is or how many who are webbing you. Once enough ships have webbed you, it's over for you anyways.

NightmareX plstop))

Ever make a careless mistake IRL and think "man that was dumb" and feel bad about yourself? Just read *one* NightmareX post and experience transcendental relief from the certain knowledge that even in your worst moments you will never plumb the depths that he lives on a daily basis. It is a great burden he bears, acting as the benchmark for human stupidity, and I for one think he does it with considerable grace.