Player Features and Ideas Discussion

We don't want every ship to turn into a skinned variant of every other ship, with just ROF/tracking bonuses...

Just leave them alone.. really I think all the pirate BS's should be left alone.. (Cruiser and Frigs could use a little work though)..

Why? Cause they are all very effective.

Vindi is Lethal to most anything, once it gets within about 15km. Webs combined with High DPS just melt anything. But he has very little effectiveness outside of that. Outside it's webrange it can't catch it, and is using low-damage ammo's.

Nightmare simply has some of the best applied DPS at almost all ranges in the game, but is drawn back with severe cap requirements.

Mach is fast and agile, but either does decent DPS at point blank with AC's and it's insane Ammo consumption, or High alpha but fairly low DPS at range with Arties.. Oh and you can turn a Mach around faster than arties track..

Bhaal, ya, no complaints there lol. Also a natural counter to a Vindi, given the tank it can fit, and the fact that it can neut a BS dry with ease, and it's long webs allow it to keep High DPS targets at range.

Rattlesnake is low on DPS, but is the ultimate survivor. You can fall asleep in a lvl4 with one and not need t worry.

Each BS has a roll, and fills it. None of them are OP imho. I wouldn't mind seeing NAVY ships buffed a little, as I feel they are a little under powered vs their Pirate counterparts. That's not to say they should be on par, but Pirate Ships are in general supposed to be more Gank, and Navy more Tank.. so a few could use a buff there.. and maybe since RS is such a good tanking Pirate BS, we should have a really good GANK Navy BS..


When it comes to frigs and cruisers.. Most of them really need to be changes and/or buffed. Daredevil and Dram are both already excellent, leave them. Worm is good, not widely used, but that's not it's fault. Succubus and Cruor really need some work to make them more viable.
Cruiser wise, Vigilant and Cynabal are awesome. Ashimmu could use a little work, but I'm not sure would could be done that would be small enough to make it viable, but not big enough to make it OP. Phantasm really needs attention. Gila is perfect, one of the best mission boats in the game, much like it's bigger brother.

There are so many things that DO need a rebalance.. Stop messing with the things that are fine.

A Vindi pawning anything at 15km is not OP, it just is what it is. It's what it's for, stay 20km out and all of a sudden it's not that scary, it's just a shiny KM. Not to mention it's generally the most expensive Pirate BS. When you field it you make a commitment.

Careful, Dinsdale. You wouldn't want to stray too far into frothy-mouthed hysterical perma-rage and end up account banned for saying the wrong thing.

You know. Rule 30 and all.

What I got from that tirade is that ships with God-web and superior speed (hint: fight control) are excellent while rest are mediocre .. which on the whole is fine. Fight control is one thing, but complete fight dominance is an entirely different beast and that is exactly what you see in the Serpentis line with perfect damage application + top tier damage, top tier mobility, top tier .. ad nauseum.

Even if you were to axe the God-web they'd still be head and shoulders above everything else thanks to all the other factors that are almost always ignored when righteous indignation takes hold.

Current pirate ships are all pretty much carbon copies of generic tier one ships with ramped up stats, what kind of insane asylum spawns pirates who by their very nature (wrong side of society) will be outproduced, outmanned and outgunned by the organization and size of society proper. The knife in the dark and the poison in the cup is what their aim should be.

Rethink them. Design around the philosophy of beating the odds, of taking the 'on paper' lopsided fight and coming out on top.

Combat eWar platforms.

Serps - take a chunk out of their damage, keep the God webs and add some tank maybe. Give the Gallente T2 engineers something to work towards .. hell, could probably get away with adding half the T2 tackle range bonus on top.
Bloods - are already there as is, refine the eWar aspect, perhaps by making the raw drain bonus a 50/50 range/power .. ie. not quite T2 but superior to T1 .. or make them into the cap monsters that was denied Amarr proper by giving them a +20%/level bonus to everything concerning cap (injectors, batteries, neuts/nos, relays et al.).
Sansha - Almost there, better mobility and something else to use the mids for .. like for example TD's. ASB's give them a capless tank option to run guns, but might want to look at base cap as well.
Angel - Mobility, lots of it but with abysmal staying power .. cripple their cargo holds and maybe up damage a tad to compensate. Handful of skirmishes with cargo starting full of ammo sounds about right ..
Gurista - As is with added ECM. Or push the envelope, revise all eWar drones and give them a staggeringly OP eWar drone bonus .. as in +50%/level. If the latter then consider swapping at least of missile range for damage/RoF.

In short: On their own they should be scalpels among the hack-saws of the Empires and their power should not be evident unless wielded by a truly skilled surgeon. The whole "I have more ISK, I can afford bling, I win" is abhorrent.

Since Rubicon turned this game into Frigate Online, I'm not surprised they want to nerf battleships even more

My battleships will be pushed further back into the closet to collect dust

United voices saying "Hands Off" our pirate hull!

Do Not screw our beloved ships.

Sorry CCP but nerfing pirate BS is stupid there expensive for a reason so there meant to be very powerful. Also your probably gonna nerf the existing pirate ships then when the SoE BS comes out OP it as its new.

Really not going to be helpful

Leave Vindi webs alone please

CCP nerf team are crippling elite styles of play that use the wonderful variety of bonuses on ships, especially pirate faction hulls, offer. This is true of both PVP and PVE.

If we end up with a homogenized series of infinitely identical ships, good players will loose interest, making EVE a much more boring place to game. This is a game after all and if the future is dull, we will find better games.

Pirate hulls are very important for the variety of play styles and need to be respected, "re-balancing" all these ships is a bad idea, as seems to be the general consensus on this thread.

Again I say NO, leave these ships alone. Go Fix stuff that is really broken instead of trolling us with this nonsense. This thread should show you the waters are very cold, so take you toes out and do something else.

The web bonus really needs to stay. They are a unique ship with a unique bonus. Web range has already been nerfed with the ogb nerfs. These ships can be countered with other ships as other posters have already explained.

Some of these ships could be balanced, but nerfing the BS across the board would be a really bad idea. The warp changes already were a stealth nerf to BS. TE nerf also hurt them. Web range has affected them. Another nerf could kill these ships.

At this point, we're not trying to stop them being rebalanced. We'd all agree some of them need some serious luvin's.


What we're trying to do is stop unfounded and unnecessary nerfing.


I just checked cause I was curious, but it took 32/33 pages of 'Hey these changes are bad' in the Gallente BS thread to get a favorable response and redesign. If that's what we have to do here, we will.


As has been said, some of the pirate ships need some serious luvin' and reworking(read Phantasm, Ashimmu, vigilant + some of the frigates, and maybe nightmare. Maybe.).

Some of them are fine as they are, and do not need changed, should not be changed(read Vindicator, machariel, Daredevil, Dramiel, Bhaalgorn).


Those aren't '100% no other opinions allowed' lists, but a general feel for how the conversation has gone, allowing some exception for a few disagreeing perspectives.

Everything will be 're-balanced' at some point. Fact accepted. We're just trying to make sure unnecessary nerfing is not done for the sake of nerfing.