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Thanks CCP for making the Naga a pile of garbage not worth flying.
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Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2011-11-06 09:50:03 UTC
For a ship that's supposed to be super specialized, a split bonus is the dumbest thing to add. It either needs to be a dedicated rail ship with the optimal and an added damage or cap bonus, or a dedicated torp ship with a flight time RoF, or damage bonus added on top of the velocity bonus.

If ccp wants it to have the option of either torps or rails then it needs 4 bonuses to be on par with the other t3's; 2 for rails, 2 for torps.
Draahk Chimera
Supervillains
#22 - 2011-11-06 10:15:24 UTC
Not commenting un the usefulness of the resulting ship I think the bonuses makes complete sense actually, considering what they where trying to do.

1. Caldari rail ships have a tank bonus + an optimal bonus.
2. Drake has tank bonus + missile bonus.
3. We don't want to give theese glass cannons a tank bonus, let's make it a split weapon platform.
4. Using other caldari bonuses that would be something like 10% rail optimal + 5% cruise and torp ROF
5. We don't want tier 3 bc's to be useful against cruiser sized hulls so we need to remove the cruise missile bonus.
6. ???????? - let's change the 5% torp ROF bonus to a range bonus
7. Result: Naga

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DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2011-11-06 10:53:17 UTC
The Naga should have 2 bonuses for each weapon set.
Its turret/missile bay layout is 8 each, so you're not going to mix and match weapons. A missile Naga will have useless hybrid bonuses. A hybrid Naga will have useless missile bonuses. A split weapons Naga will be hilarious and fail.

This will not make it overpowered. Flexible fittings do not make a ship overpowered.
Dray
C.O.D.E
#24 - 2011-11-06 10:55:05 UTC
Draahk Chimera wrote:
Not commenting un the usefulness of the resulting ship I think the bonuses makes complete sense actually, considering what they where trying to do.

1. Caldari rail ships have a tank bonus + an optimal bonus.
2. Drake has tank bonus + missile bonus.
3. We don't want to give theese glass cannons a tank bonus, let's make it a split weapon platform.
4. Using other caldari bonuses that would be something like 10% rail optimal + 5% cruise and torp ROF
5. We don't want tier 3 bc's to be useful against cruiser sized hulls so we need to remove the cruise missile bonus.
6. ???????? - let's change the 5% torp ROF bonus to a range bonus
7. Result: Naga


Firstly no, just no, it doesn't work, the only way to make it work is to give it 2 rail and 2 missile bonus but only apply the bonus if a full rack of the particular system is fitted.

Secondly, the tank plus weapons system bonus is ok because you only have one damage type to boost so you can fit 2-4 damage mods specific to the weapon system, you missed the point of the glass cannon if you think that dual weapon bonus is a good idea, you can't stack damage mods if you have to boost 2 types of weapon system, even worse for the Naga it has 3 lows.
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2011-11-06 11:34:54 UTC
Dray wrote:


but only apply the bonus if a full rack of the particular system is fitted.



This is actually an incredibly creative idea that could change a great number of things. Bonuses that tailor numerical values based on the purity of a fit.
Draahk Chimera
Supervillains
#26 - 2011-11-06 13:33:29 UTC
Dray wrote:
Draahk Chimera wrote:
Not commenting on the usefulness of the resulting ship


Random rant about something I didn't say



Reading comprehension 4tw.

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Captain Megadeath
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2011-11-06 14:35:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Megadeath
Dray wrote:

True but they have always had crappy hybrid boats, so either make it a crappy hybrid boat (like they need more) or make it a missile boat.


Caldari hybrid boats have always been "crap" because hybrids have always been "crap", before the nanonerf Gallente boats were able to use superior speed to cover this fact but after it, it has become glaringly obvious to everyone that hybrids in general suck.

Dray wrote:

Back to the point in hand, what, in your opinion, should the bonus be without the making the Naga blow harder than it already does?


They should return the dual bonuses that were released in its first iteration, Role bonuses to fitting and capacitor usage for large hybrid turrets and siege launchers (torpedoes)
Range (10/lv) and tracking speed (7.5/lv) bonuses to large hybrid turrets, and torpedo velocity (10/lv) and explosion-velocity (5/lv).

Make these bonuses work ONLY when a full rack of a particular weapon is fitted. i.e. no mixed weapon loads. Either 8 rails or 8 torps. Not a 4/4 mix.

Considering that during this revision they removed the web bonus and drone bonus on the Talos, they have fecked up more than the Naga. I suggest that they return the original stats on both.

Dray wrote:

If I want a dual weapon bonus ship I'll use a Typhoon as it can pull it off, the Naga can't, not even close.


And as my main is a Caldari, I wish to fly Caldari with racial weapons. Just the same as the Galls who wish to fly their racial ship with their racial weapons. Both Tr3 BC need their original stats back.
Zelphinine
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-11-06 18:26:23 UTC
Captain Megadeath wrote:
Make these bonuses work ONLY when a full rack of a particular weapon is fitted. i.e. no mixed weapon loads. Either 8 rails or 8 torps. Not a 4/4 mix.
Who would split their weapons by choice? This seems like a terribly cumbersome thing to worry about. And a good way to get CCP to pass over the entire issue by demanding additional coding.

The Naga sucks enough as it is. Don't water down the case for buffing by demanding its bonuses only apply in specific situations.
Dray
C.O.D.E
#29 - 2011-11-08 20:44:23 UTC
Draahk Chimera wrote:
Dray wrote:
Draahk Chimera wrote:
Not commenting on the usefulness of the resulting ship


Random rant about something I didn't say



Reading comprehension 4tw.



I apologise, I'm sure if you'd said the same face to face I'd have picked up the sarcasm. Smile
draconothese
Independant Celestial Enterprises
#30 - 2011-11-09 00:55:14 UTC
leave the telos alone buff it even more i say gallente have been in the dark for to long
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2011-11-09 01:39:13 UTC
Never noticed that bit before. The fitting complaints, I seem to fit it right, but as for the skill, a 5% rof bonus to hybrids and siege launchers be a not bad one.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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