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Sermon: Prematurely Freed Slaves in Hell

Author
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-11-24 05:53:06 UTC
Cuci Cairi wrote:
Wait, hell is a battleship?

Hell is a railgun shield-tank Abaddon.

That you have to fly against Angel Cartel.

Forever.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2013-11-24 10:43:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Stitcher wrote:
Funny thing about the Scriptures: Being text, no matter how big they are it can't amount to more than a Gigabyte or two at the most. Negligible, next to the capacity of even the most basic memory implants.

Food for thought.


I am unsure what you are trying to imply... Store them into an implant, or intro a library, what is the difference ? You sitll need the processing capacity to read them all.

Which you have certainly not.

You are a living charlatanist insult to science.

I think Oniseki-haani has already explained it in a more diplomatic way than I have.

Stitcher wrote:
Quite so. But I'm prepared to bet that the total amount of data I've absorbed via implant learning over the last eight years, being sufficient to allow me to fly in excess of two hundred different ship hulls, all of them to a high standard, and equip them with their dizzying variety of equipment, weaponry, maximize their performance, maximize my ability to co-ordinate whole fleets of them, not forgetting the ability to build most of them, reverse-engineer advanced technology, hack security systems, mine, refine, scan, buy, sell, administrate ground facilities from orbit and generate tame wormholes that will fling several thousand meters of starship across the light years...

I'm prepared to estimate that the total data I've uploaded into my brain in learning how to do all that probably exceeds the total file size of the the Amarrian Scriptures.


The only thing you have assimilated are mere flight manuals. Advanced manuals, granted, but not a whole culture.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2013-11-24 10:45:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Katrina Oniseki wrote:

EDIT: I should clarify and admit that this is not the only reason our injected-learning rates are controlled. It's also for safety reasons, as I have been told.


It is more than safety reasons, even if those exist too.

It is also about the defining of any living being. Anyone is the sum of his or her memories. Modify that in one stroke without making the whole assimilation process, and you eventually "rewrite" any individual into something else.


Fredfredbug4 wrote:
If God was forgiving and benevolent, I doubt he would create a realm dedicated to torturing souls for all eternity.

And if God is so powerful, why hasn't he destroyed tbese pesky demons? Isn't it contradictory to claim there is one all powerful God while also believing in other entities that can override God's will and lure humans away from his grace?

Part of why the Amarr faith never applead to me is because there are more plotholes than your average B Holomovie.


You are not speaking about the Amarr Faith. You are refering to a fantasy.

In Amarr Scripture, God holds no moral value. There is no forgiveness or benevolence.

God is similar to the Achuran concept of the universe. Anyone can choose to give it an anthropomorphic shape like we give anthropomorphic shapes to some drones or pet drones if that makes it easier for them. But associating the same human flaws to a concept tied to the Creation and the inner cogs of the universe would be considered foolish, at best.

Even the Scriptures can only be taken metaphorically since they are written by men, and so hold men values and observations on an entity that goes beyond them.
Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#24 - 2013-11-24 11:47:52 UTC
Stitcher wrote:

I'm prepared to estimate that the total data I've uploaded into my brain in learning how to do all that probably exceeds the total file size of the Amarrian Scriptures.


You would be wrong.

Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/

Dangirdas Bachir
The Exiled Titans
#25 - 2013-11-24 11:56:17 UTC
This made my tears flow like never before.

EVE EVE STARGALACTIC CITY B I T C H

Arkady Vachon
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#26 - 2013-11-24 12:26:27 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
but this slave collar shall only inflict pains and sufferings beyond the wildest ingenuity and perversions of New Eden's slave collar programmers. Because God is just.


So you embrace ingenious perversion in controlling other people...Somehow this does not surprise me.

Quote:
And so the Prematurely Freed Slave shall cry for Vitoc, shall beg for Vitoc, shall plead for Vitoc — but Vitoc shall be denied him, even as the demons torment him by placing Vitoc just and forever out of his reach.


You need to be dosed with Vitoc just to calm you down, plus it would be fun to throw you into a deep dark hole, dose you up with Vitoc, and see how you like it.

Nothing Personal - Just Business...

Chaos Creates Content

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-11-24 12:55:12 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Funny thing about the Scriptures: Being text, no matter how big they are it can't amount to more than a Gigabyte or two at the most. Negligible, next to the capacity of even the most basic memory implants.

Food for thought.


I am unsure what you are trying to imply... Store them into an implant, or intro a library, what is the difference ? You sitll need the processing capacity to read them all.

Which you have certainly not.

You are a living charlatanist insult to science.

I think Oniseki-haani has already explained it in a more diplomatic way than I have.

Stitcher wrote:
I'm prepared to estimate that the total data I've uploaded into my brain in learning how to do all that probably exceeds the total file size of the the Amarrian Scriptures.


The only thing you have assimilated are mere flight manuals. Advanced manuals, granted, but not a whole culture.


Those flight manuals are several terabytes in size each. I have assimilated 305 such packages so far, 130 of them to completion.

The scriptures are not "a whole culture" because cultures are living things produced by humans. What the Scriptures are is the combined writing, philosophy and theology of that culture. They are data, and nowhere close to the many hundreds of terabytes I have already assimilated.

You're quite right that I have not assimilated the Scriptures in that way - I never claimed to. I have devoted that time to things like spaceship operation and gunnery.

My point is that in the age of the advanced cybernetic learning techniques used by all capsuleers, the assertion that the Scriptures are too large to be read and understood by a single person inside their lifetime simply is no longer true.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#28 - 2013-11-24 13:42:08 UTC
Oh Verin, I go to grab a few hours of sleep and you go ahead and use reason to turn these scriptures from a towering, unassailable mountain into a funny little pile of not-quite-esoteric data.

Quote:
Satrapess Ms Lady Dame Otsito the third, do you really are so primitive or do you think that I wouldn't see that you are committing an act of vicious circular reasoning here? You're not even entertaining in commiting your petitio principia here or creative in evading the question. Why should I defend Amarr culture against accusations that find their only factual substratum in what you dreamed up in your autistic mind?

I'd suggest to you to turn yourself in for re-education, but that would imply that you got any education in the first place. Go to highschool and play your little games there. Maybe you learn there that the Scriptures aren't by any stretch merely made up of what might qualify as 'mythology' by the widest of (remotely valid) definitions.


Oh, someone's buttons got properly tickled. I'm sure that SuuVe would have taken offense at hearing their educational prowess being slandered, if they weren't too busy wondering what a highschool is or what the relevance your mythology has in such a context.

Because that is indeed what they are. No matter what else is interspersed in the data, from technical manuals to screenplays and all else, they're in every quoted instance on these boards and elsewhere religious in nature. Everything about the myth you call "God" comes from those texts, which is pretty much the definition of mythology.

But perhaps you'd prefer an answer in kind to your own bleating. "Rawr poopiebutt meany waaah waaah."

Quote:
As to you Cpt. Hakatain: I see you have no need of lawyers either, because you can read the entirety of Caldari State law while having breakfast. Good for you.


Probably shouldn't take much more than a few days, at the most. If I can become exceptionally proficient in laser physics in less than a week, mastering it fully in a fortnight (and I have) and retain all that knowledge and understanding it does indeed imply that the education of a lawyer shouldn't be particularly problematic to assimilate. I would actually be surprised if it's not already the norm among many of CONCORD's and the State's departments to use capsuleers in such contexts.

I think I'd welcome a few "The Scriptures, unabridged version" skillbooks, in fact. Since technology now allows many of us to actually assimilate, understand and thus live by the exact words of your most holy texts one'd think your Empire would leap at the chance to spread the good word as it is. Unless of course that would reveal it to New Eden as the sheep's dung it really is.

I suppose the "exegeters" are indeed required to filter out the most obvious tosh.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-11-24 13:57:32 UTC
Well in fairness it isn't a little pile - as I understand it, all of the scrolls, books and hard copy that make up the Scriptures do take up several large warehouses - but considering that most commercial electronics these days are equipped with a few hundred petabytes of storage (this being not only sufficient to meet ANYBODY'S needs indefinitely, but also cheap enough for mass production) It seems ridiculous to me to claim that a body of work which is, no matter what Cpt. Mithra claims, mostly plain text is beyond being digitized and stored.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#30 - 2013-11-24 14:06:41 UTC
Funny little pile of not-quite-so-esoteric-after-all data. Once digitized and stored. I'd buy one.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Cuci Cairi
#31 - 2013-11-24 14:31:42 UTC
I've never thought about this, before. Why can't they be digitized? Can one of the faithful explain this, beyond just saying "erm, no"? We are all aware that the Scriptures are constantly changing and being modified, but there is no reason that it couldn't just then be updated to a new digital version. Hell, the Theology Council could even provide "correct" interpretive commentary alongside the digital Scriptures.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#32 - 2013-11-24 15:15:16 UTC
When I survey in the Empyreans in all of their wickedness, all of their vanities, and all of their pride, I see a people who would benefit neither from the most careful of Scriptural interpretations nor from cybernetic Scriptural learning, because they have already hardened their hearts against God or formed a false image of God in their own minds — a God only of love and mercy and compassion.

No, the Empyreans need be convicted of God's power, God's hatred, and God's glory. And that is what I — an unschooled street preacher of the IGS — hope to do with my teaching.

Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#33 - 2013-11-24 15:24:29 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
If God was forgiving and benevolent, I doubt he would create a realm dedicated to torturing souls for all eternity.


As the Scriptures say, "The Wrath of God is Immense."

Fredfredbug4 wrote:
And if God is so powerful, why hasn't he destroyed tbese pesky demons? Isn't it contradictory to claim there is one all powerful God while also believing in other entities that can override God's will and lure humans away from his grace?


God could destroy the Demons with a mere wave of His divine arm, or a mere thought of the same. The Demons exist because God wills they exist. When the righteous man triumphs over the Demons, it gives glory to God. When the Wicked man is tormented by the Demons in the Pit, it gives glory to God. When someday God has had enough of the Demons and destroys them, their destruction will give glory to God.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#34 - 2013-11-24 15:25:54 UTC
Vlad Cetes wrote:
How much effort was used to write this useless drivel? Try using that energy for more productive ends.


Is the chance that even one slave is spared from eternal destruction by these few words not worth the effort?
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-11-24 16:26:44 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
No, the Empyreans need be convicted of God's power, God's hatred, and God's glory. And that is what I — an unschooled street preacher of the IGS — hope to do with my teaching.

The only thing you're doing is making yourself look like a very dedicated satirist or a complete idiot. The only hatred you're convincing anyone of is your own - your petty hatred for things you can't control.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#36 - 2013-11-24 16:29:04 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Katrina Oniseki wrote:

EDIT: I should clarify and admit that this is not the only reason our injected-learning rates are controlled. It's also for safety reasons, as I have been told.


It is more than safety reasons, even if those exist too.

It is also about the defining of any living being. Anyone is the sum of his or her memories. Modify that in one stroke without making the whole assimilation process, and you eventually "rewrite" any individual into something else.


Oh, thank you for pointing this out - it is so often missed. I think that Capsuleers are somewhat jaded about their concept of "the self", given our ability to circumvent death and all of the curious cognitive effects that come with it. I would be unsurprised if many Capsuleers didn't care about making those sorts of alterations to themselves, which is really rather frightening given what a cleverly designed implant can do to ones' utility function!

More specifically, in regards to your statement and to the gracious Oniseki-haani's statement, any sort of cognitive remapping has to be done over a span of time commensurate with the number of nodes being remapped. Branching habit violations are of relatively little concern, and are in fact the reason why we call these operations a remap instead of a regrowth. However, care must be taken that the overall map vector is not greatly altered, and that any alterations happen continuously.

What you refer to above as a rewrite is called (at least in our literature here) as a "discontinuity". A discontinuity marks the end of a conscious entity; it's one of the last places we can realistically cite as death. They are sadly frequent in Capsuleer circles; I myself had one a few years ago. We aren't immortals, not at all. Our neutral structures decay very quickly indeed as soon as the pilot becomes lax in her cognitive hygiene regimen.

Let it be a sobering lesson - take care of your brains first! They really are all you've got.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#37 - 2013-11-24 16:59:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Stitcher wrote:

Those flight manuals are several terabytes in size each. I have assimilated 305 such packages so far, 130 of them to completion.

The scriptures are not "a whole culture" because cultures are living things produced by humans. What the Scriptures are is the combined writing, philosophy and theology of that culture. They are data, and nowhere close to the many hundreds of terabytes I have already assimilated.

You're quite right that I have not assimilated the Scriptures in that way - I never claimed to. I have devoted that time to things like spaceship operation and gunnery.

My point is that in the age of the advanced cybernetic learning techniques used by all capsuleers, the assertion that the Scriptures are too large to be read and understood by a single person inside their lifetime simply is no longer true.


Then I am afraid that you do not understand what the Scriptures really are. They are supposed to represent the Amarr culture, which means that through all that data, one could theorically get a clear picture of what is the culture and understand it perfectly, like through a lens. But if you do not understand that, I can also return the usual favour done by many caldari consisting to say "You can not understand, after all you are just a jaijji". Then, if it has to come to that, and even if I do not believe in that kind of poppycock... You can not understand, you are not Amarr.

I am also afraid that you know very little of SoCT issued technology. Those skillbooks contain the data required as knowledge (much like what the scriptures are) as well as the data required as a mean to understand and master said knowledge. [And that is a gross simplification of the real tech]

I am still maintaining that merely storing all that scripture data into one's brain is meaningless, it only helps the individual to access it instantly, unlike going to the library and look for the book, then the correct page. In both cases, it is necessary to read/watch/listen to (which takes a lot of time) and then understanding it. That precise understanding has to be accommodated into the brain, the same way skillbooks comprehension has to be slowly injected.

Considering the amount of scripture data, it would take eons to master it all.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2013-11-24 17:18:09 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Katrina Oniseki wrote:

EDIT: I should clarify and admit that this is not the only reason our injected-learning rates are controlled. It's also for safety reasons, as I have been told.


It is more than safety reasons, even if those exist too.

It is also about the defining of any living being. Anyone is the sum of his or her memories. Modify that in one stroke without making the whole assimilation process, and you eventually "rewrite" any individual into something else.


Oh, thank you for pointing this out - it is so often missed. I think that Capsuleers are somewhat jaded about their concept of "the self", given our ability to circumvent death and all of the curious cognitive effects that come with it. I would be unsurprised if many Capsuleers didn't care about making those sorts of alterations to themselves, which is really rather frightening given what a cleverly designed implant can do to ones' utility function!

More specifically, in regards to your statement and to the gracious Oniseki-haani's statement, any sort of cognitive remapping has to be done over a span of time commensurate with the number of nodes being remapped. Branching habit violations are of relatively little concern, and are in fact the reason why we call these operations a remap instead of a regrowth. However, care must be taken that the overall map vector is not greatly altered, and that any alterations happen continuously.

What you refer to above as a rewrite is called (at least in our literature here) as a "discontinuity". A discontinuity marks the end of a conscious entity; it's one of the last places we can realistically cite as death. They are sadly frequent in Capsuleer circles; I myself had one a few years ago. We aren't immortals, not at all. Our neutral structures decay very quickly indeed as soon as the pilot becomes lax in her cognitive hygiene regimen.

Let it be a sobering lesson - take care of your brains first! They really are all you've got.


Oh ! That is how you call it ? That is pretty much similar. it can also lead to interesting things like "memory oblivions".
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#39 - 2013-11-24 17:50:51 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Oh ! That is how you call it ? That is pretty much similar. it can also lead to interesting things like "memory oblivions".


Do you mean an internally biased network cycle, or do you mean a disconnected map partition?
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#40 - 2013-11-24 18:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Katran Luftschreck
Jinari Otsito wrote:
It's so nice to occasionally have a public reminder of how absolutely nutbag crazy the Empire, religion, the scriptures and its adherents really are.


Especially considering that we don't actually believe in this "Hell" that he's talking about ... I'd suggest that the Theology Council have an educational chat with him.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0