Intergalactic Summit

And here, of course, we see the dagger that hides behind the smile of every "compassionate" slaver.

You're no different to the child-abusing psychopaths who make up the vast majority of slaveholders, except in that you're less honest about it.

Slavery is just one of those subjects that it is impossible to have a nuanced and calm open debate on.

You defend the system that creates the abusers, who are by no means whatsoever rare, comprising the vast majority of slaveowners. The fact that you resort to scatological insults and comparisons to slaves (which clearly indicates you consider them to be of intrinsically less value than yourself) belies the lack of substance in your arguments.

Any system that places human beings as the property of other human beings (including those systems that conveniently reclassify the victims as "subhuman" to escape such a definition via semantics, which from vast amounts of evidence includes the Amarr system) is intrinsically and fatally flawed. There is no hope of reforming such a system because the system is itself the problem. Defending such a system is itself an indefensible action.

The IGS is not your personal soapbox: it is a place of discussion and debate. EVERYTHING said here is a debate. If you didn't understand that when you came here, consider yourself educated.

If you want to peddle your delusions and "inform" people then that's your prerogative, but if you do it here, where all voices may speak, then you have no right to object when some of them speak in opposition to you. If you wish to speak unopposed, create your own newsfeed, set up your own portal, hell, buy a broadcast node. But this is why I said "don't you dare": If you come to a place of discussion, and demand that what you say not be discussed, then you only make yourself seem foolish.

If you can't stand the heat, then don't work the forge.

There is a difference between debate, and outright attack. Choosing to debate this and choosing to take this as an opportunity to lash out at what you do not understand are two different things.

Educate yourself on the difference.

That is because there are no nuances or complexity in the fundamental foundations of slavery. It is one of the very few things in New Eden that truly is black and white at the core with mountains of religion, bad philosophy, self-delusion, poor justification and piles of so called "tradition" making it appear otherwise.

Once you remove all the fedo droppings like the dribblings of Vulx here you are left with a morally reprehensible and financially inefficient system of human misery and suffering. There is really nothing to debate, except the exact depth of barbarism and cruelty a society needs to contain before such a thing can be viewed as a good option.

It concerns me that our "allies" are demonstrably one of the most vile societies in New Eden, rivaled only by the most depraved and cruel pirates and terrorists. Good to have in a fight, I'm sure. Less nice to have at our backs should the unifying enemy ever fade away.

By continuing to make use of a fatally flawed system, the distinction of whether you do it "compassionately" or not becomes entirely irrelevant. You lend legitimacy to all those who abuse it for their own purposes.


"My system" doesn't profit from the unpaid labour, suffering, sexual abuse, forced breeding, cultural eradication, dehumanisation and in one case outright mass murder of hundreds of billions of people.


If you ever get a chance to visit Gallente Prime, walk down Genero Boulevard in Caille. It's not on any of the main tourist routes - it's in a fairly poor neighbourhood, in fact - so you'll probably have to find it on a holomap. You will see a building marked with an old-fashioned kite shield emblazoned with a bow and arrow, called the "Caille Huntsman Society Shelter." It's a shelter for the homeless and those unfortunates in Caille living below the poverty line. If you ask very nicely - I suggest leaving the outrageously supercilious attitude you've displayed throughout this thread at the door, or even better at the Amarr-Gallente border - they'll show you around the facilities. They're basic, spartan, worlds removed from the sort of opulent luxury I imagine even the most minor of Holders is accustomed to living in, but to people living on the streets of Caille who have nothing or as good as nothing, it's like a palace. A place where they can sleep, get a hot meal, a shower, some new clothes, perhaps even get help kicking a drug addiction or finding a job - somewhere they can go to feel like they aren't completely alone.

Ask them to show you the plaques they put up on the common room wall. They put one up for every single person who makes a significant donation to the Huntsman Society.

See if there's a face there that you recognise.

Check out how much I donated.

Tell me that I don't care about the disadvantaged and the unfortunate. Tell me I need to place them beneath me on the celestial ladder just so I can "provide" for them.

I challenge you to actually travel the Amarrian empire. See all the forms of this relationship that you can.

Then make your assessment, not before. Mind you this will take an extremely long time.

You're missing the point. It's not about how you treat them. It's not about how positive and loving your relationship with them is. It's not about whether they agreed to it.

It's about the fact that They. Are. Slaves.

That's it: That's the whole problem. I don't give a bent tritanium ingot if they worship the ground you walk upon, nobody, no matter how benevolent, is entitled to hold that kind of power over another human being. No matter the motive, no matter their morals, no matter the reason, and no matter the wishes of the enslaved. It is an institution that even when practice by the most morally upstanding person in New Eden would still be reprehensible.

If they can't look after themselves and you make them a slave, you are exploiting them whether you mean to or not. There are means to assist a person that do not require them to be legally your property - you had other options besides this, and you didn't take them.

THAT is the arrogance of it all. You think that their only hope is to be taken under your wing, to be protected. That it's all for their own good.

True aid is when you give people the tools to rebuild themselves. It's not folding them into your loving embrace and protecting them until the nasty universe goes away.

If you think this description of your relationship with your slaves was likely to make me think more highly of you, then you miscalculated - it sickens me. It tells me that you either genuinely believe that a person can be nurtured through stripping them of their status, or that you are a fantastically good liar who is also a terrible judge of character (I consider the former to be more likely)

It's quite plain at this point that you're drinking from the same water cooler you've introduced these "recovered" souls to. You're just another fanatic spreading his religion, and the rest of us can see it for what it is far more clearly than you can.

You're a victim, pilot. You've at least convinced me to take that pitying view of you rather than the contempt I would usually have for a holder. Count that as a victory.

I have seen the effects of those being left to their own devices when they have not been properly trained in how to provide for themselves, or how to do better than just get by.

I am giving them the tools, and I recognize I need more tools to give them. That is why I plan on building a small university on my island strictly for them.

I fail to see how my simply dropping them off on the nearest planet I came across after I rescued them as being helpful. I have provided them with counseling, medical care, etc.

You sicken me by your arrogance. Thus we are even.

We must simply agree to disagree.