Player Features and Ideas Discussion

how about when the order fails, the seller who is trying to sell to the buyer order gets an option to sell the item for what is currently has in the escrow.

so anybody who has the item can sell it to the over priced buy order still.

That's what I meant originally when considering this solution.

Currently people that use it 'legitimately' can place a buy order of, say, 10 bil units, with only 2.4bil unit worth in their wallet.

With the fix they wont be able to do that. Their order would only be for 2.4bil units. Why bother?

Placing big buy orders :

(a) Supports a market - you would have to sell a lot of units for the price to go lower
(b) Attracts wholesale suppliers

Both of these will be gone once margin orders are tied to their wallets.

There is also a techie aspect. It seems that the way the market functions at the moment, orders are placed and sit there happily with no need for 'maintenance' or 'up-keeping'. Right now, the only time the program acts on the market is when someone buys or sells (enters an order).
Tying margin orders to the wallets would force the program to check/update/enter/ orders in the market every time the wallet balance of margin trader changed.

That's a lot of checks ..for what? To nerf margin trading? (they are going to view it as a nerf, and it is, since they will no longer be able to show 100 with just 24)

Personally I would rather remove the skill than load the servers this way.

Anyway I would encourage you to read what I proposed about collateral, its a few pages back. It has common ground with this proposal in the sense that the margin bids are also related to sell orders. The idea is to take advantage of the fact that a big order will realistically take a long time to fill, but at the same time allows for it to be filled in full if need be.

It would essentially trigger sell orders at market prices i.e. at the prevailing bid, until the full amount was covered, if the margin buy order was filled in full.

Yes I admit there is a danger of Mittens selling his Trit and the Raven market suddenly collapsing a few seconds later, which might not be a good idea, we won't know until we try it-hehe, but no...I have instead been trying to think how i contain this risk by having an associated Collateral market. It starts like this. Imagine an item called a Collateral unit. You can buy it and sell it. You can only use it to back margin orders.

work in progress - to be continued...

Continued...

Margin traders would need to place bids in the Collateral unit (Cu) market because without bids (collectively) it won't be possible for anyone to use margin.

If they want to use margin trading, they have to bid in the Cu market.

A margin order placement takes at least 24% from the wallet (escrow) which guarantees visibility of 24% of my order, If i want to show the rest i need to use Cu's.

Lets say I buy from the offers, one Cu unit that costs 1.2 isk. How much is that unit worth for margin trading? If the bid in the Cu market is at 0.8isk, thats how much its worth.

Did I just lose money? No because my cu unit is not sold yet. It only gets sold at 0.8 if my margin order gets filled in full.

If my margin order gets filled gradually, this (first) takes money from the escrow account which is credited with 24% of the order. As I sell stuff, I get isk, and I can refill my escrow. If I dont refill the escrow then once its dry any further stuff I buy through the margin order is done by the automatic sale of my Cu units at prevailing market bids in the Cu market.

Thats the jist of it.

People will buy Cu units to use for visibility if they so wish. They will not want to lose them, so the will try to keep their margin order escrows full. If a fat supplier comes in, then essentially the Collateral units are liquidated, it pushes the Cu market lower, which is a good thing. People that have bid lower in the CU market, get to buy collateral cheaper, but that's irrelevant because its value is essentially where it is bid , not where it is offered. That's the reason margin traders need to keep bids in the Cu market.

A fat supplier therefore makes it easier to obtain collateral at cheaper prices. This makes sense. Liquidity sort of increases, "the Veld is flowing". However if people that use margin to attract these suppliers do not keep up with the production, i.e if they buy stuff and just sit on it, then they lose their collateral. At the end of the day, even-though someone might be able to buy cu's at 0.5 he would still have to pay isk for that, he would still have to pay isk fro the escrow in his margin order, so if he just sits on his laurels, in the end he is forced to sell what he was buying...

In the meantime the offers for collateral are coming down too.People can get into this business cheaper.

When would collateral units go up in price?
When end-product markets go up in value.

For example ships. If something that is worth 100mil is suddenly bid in big amounts at 200mil and there are no offers, people will want to build these ships, a lot of them, fast. In order to do that they will want to buy collateral to place big fat bids for materials to attract fat suppliers.

Its still work in progress...
Of course all this is to make margin-trading behave like something which is not essentially a fake order. It will inject leverage in the market something that so far was perhaps not possible.
I would be very careful if I were to do that but this latest version at least doesn't firesale actual market goods. If things go haywire you can always close the cu market and wait until things cool down.

Any thoughts or questions are welcome.