Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Margin Trading scams are part of Eve, are Eve itself.

Market is PvP and you want to take market's the most gudgeon-killing (and one of the most popular trick in market transations) feature of all time. It's deeply integrated into market logic and I wouldn't even dream about touching those regions.
Why would you want to take this out in the first place? To make market childish playground with training wheels? Every investement can be profitable, but the more it's profitable the more dangerous it (potentially) becomes. Sometimes you have to be fast to buy something cheap and sell high, but you have to read with understanding *what* are you buying and *what* are you going to give for it. Read every detail, be fast, think about your decision.. Yeah, think. Because making even 2000% profit seems very legit. And, how weird!, you can only sell those items in a pack of 10! Well, more money!

Don't make market childish playground. You just want to cut out a huge PvP aspect from PvP game.
And, just for your information, Eve has one of the best and realistic player-driven market in history of gaming. Think about it.

This is what CCP Rise was proposing so I think they've considered server issues, and I think market interactions don't take place on system servers as they're tied to the regions.

The Margin Trading Scam exploit's the mark's credulity and unwillingness to do basic research before investing. The market history window provides more than enough information to allow easy identification of overpriced items.

No order is guaranteed to be available when you want to sell to it. Someone else can beat you to it, the owner can take it down, etc.

Bolded the part where you seem to be saying every bit of market PVP is bad. It's a zero sum game, someone wins and someone else loses. Making an investment (the first bolded bit) exposes you to the risk that you'll be the one losing (the second bolded bit). Neglecting to properly research the investment you're making greatly increases that risk.

I have mixed thoughts on this:

The Margin Trading Scam: The only way the scammer makes any isk at all from a Margin Trade Scam is if they trick a person to purchase overpriced goods directly from them. Any player that actually investigates teh value of the product they are buying won't fall for margin trade scams:

--- Price history gives a solid indication of how much an item has been selling for.
--- Sales Volume History gives a solid indication of how rapidly an item moves.

Both of these tell you the volatility of an item, which moreless represents the risk associated with buying an item to resell for profit. A trader willingly assumes this risk when they purchase an item.

IMO, you do not need to change the margin trade skill at all. Instead, CCP needs to make this pointt CRYSTAL CLEAR:



It is that simple.... Put it right on the market interface....

A possible solution
What if it was possible to open two market windows on the SAME client and you could 'DEAL LINK' the two items between them, then if the buy order had the isk available the order would show 'GREEN' if the order could not currenly be filled it would show 'RED DO NOT BUY' this would stop a global appearance where someone with big bucks or a ton of supply could nuke out a bunch of orders just because they are a different color(however PLEASE remmber there are color blind people in the world and figure out a fix for them too), but if someone wanted to take the time to MANUALLY link the two orders in the interface they could see the results they need. It would require a 1 minute tutorial video and give the player a reward of like a +1 implant or a week of +1 to all stat training time to watch it and you'd be quite good to go.

A way a VISIBLE TO ALL EASILY market change could be ruthlessly abused.
Remember there are those of us with anywhere from 40b to a few trillion lying around, now lets say I wanted to abuse this new mechanic, how would I do it? Well lets say I see 100 market buy orders for a moon mineral, but I see that the bottom 40 of them don't have the isk available. I buy the full amount of moon mineral for the biggest order and try to sell to them all, canceling every order that doesn't have enough isk. THIS COULD BE WORTH IT TO ME if I was trying to corner the market and push it up. Please keep that in mind with how this is handled CSM and Dev like ppl.

Why Margin trading has to at least stay around
I personally sell somewhere around 40b to 60b per month of tech two, I invent it all and build it all, but I don't keep enough isk around (10 accounts are expensive) to cover all my supplies up front. Margin trading has allowed me to have 20% of the available isk and put my sell orders up maybe 1% to 2% under market average to get quick sales so I CAN cover my missing isk before the orders are filled.

One thing that might help if you are going to rework Margin Trading anyway
Can we get a log of what orders closed unfilled, even a notification of the original order, size and price, nothing worse then putting in a buy order for 12 things, one FAILED being filled 2 minutes after you logged off, the other 11 were filled and you don't know because it's no longer on your buy orders or in your wallet whatsoever. Please give us something that would allow me to sign on, see the 11 and just put up the 12th AGAIN to fill it. Would help market activity.

I believe this is completely unacceptable:

I regularly trade (and am not a Margin Trade Scammer), with billions in sell orders, and sometimes billions in buy orders. I put up buy orders to acquire more construction materials, often with the understanding and foreknowledge that I'll have the isk to pay the order before the order completes. I also move isk between characters quite a bit, replacing PvP ships, taking advantage of "deals" from corp mates unloading loot, etc. Having 50 buy orders cancelled because I transferred a bit too much isk to my alt, or because I spent some money in the mean time buying other stuff. The point of the margin trade skill is to FREE up my isk to take advantage of these opportunities, and that's why I trained the skill in the first place!

If you implement this, thereby negating the value of the Margin Trade skill, I'd request you refund my SP in Margin Trading.



To be honest, this is acceptable. I would request an additional feature to this:
-- Show the name of the buyer on the buy order too.

This way "rare item traders' can make a name for themselves, and can rise above the margin trade stigma.

[*] This information could also be fortuitous in enhancing marketeer conflict.

This, in my opinion, is the best solution. The minimum buy volume must always be covered. If min. buy volume > 24% in escrow, then escrow = 'Minimum Buy Volume' * 'Price per unit'.
For all those, who think it will harm traders. Please show one example where this is the case.

What if your orders were not canceled, but put in suspension until funds became available? And it was all automatic?
What if the number of units was reduced when escrow ran low, and was automatically increased as funds became available?

All you orders remain, all can eventually be filled, they just are not on the market until funds to cover them are available.

What if CCP just told everyone that buy orders are NOT GUARANTEED....


Seriously, what is wrong with that very, very simple concept.

I want to sell this item.... I can place a sell order, or attempt to sell it to a buy order knowing it there is a risk that order will not complete.

I can't fathom why we need to do more than this... it is so ******* simple!!!

Why should a buy order be not guaranteed? It's one thing if you are late and someone else filled it, but if you are in time and can't sell because of some ingame mechanics...
I think at least the minimum volume or 24% (the higher of this two) must be guaranteed.