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Thoughts on the future cost of Isk?

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Debra Tao
Perkone
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-11-24 21:20:18 UTC
oh and my interpretation of a Pareto optimal is right, thank you very much.
Rthor
Smugglers Inc.
#42 - 2013-11-24 21:29:46 UTC
Debra Tao wrote:
Rthor wrote:
Debra Tao wrote:
Rthor wrote:
If you have a free market things will self adjust.



You know that's just plain wrong, right ? The only thing that is guaranteed in a free market is that it's Pareto optimal which basically means that someone somewhere enjoys the free market. Nothing proves that in a free market "things will self adjust" whatever that means.


Your definition and understanding of Pareto optimality are wrong.

Pareto improvement is when somebody is made better off without making anybody else worse off.

Pareto optimum is when you cannot make anybody better off without making somebody else worse off.

If I am wrong I would like to know.

In context of this thread, if we nerf isk faucets just so that PLEX can be cheaper that is not Pareto improvement because even though PLEX buyers benefit isk earners suffer. So then you have to weigh the benefit to PLEX buyers vs isk earners suffering. If you do not care about Pareto improvement then you are just in business of redistributing wealth/resources.


A perfect free market will bring, when reaching equilibrium, a Pareto optimal situation. That's has been proved (don't remember the guy but that doesn't matter I can find it if you want).
However a Pareto optimum is hardly great in any case as you can find many exemples that are Pareto optimal while stll being ****** for everyone but one agent. If you do care about what is Pareto optimal and what isn't for practical purposes you are just dumb.

In the case of PLEX's price it's obvious that a shift in PLEX price, whether it is an increase or a decrease in price, isn't a Pareto improvment as there will always be one guy that want to push the price in the other direction. That's a decent illustration of why Pareto's notions are plain dumb in any practical cases. Pareto improvement are pratically non existents so I feel pretty good about not caring about them.


So how do you know that Debra Tao improvement is actually an improvement? Because Debra Tao says so?

I can tell people how to do things too and I can call it an Rthor improvement. Would people go for Rthor improvement?

Why should anybody go for Debra Tao improvement?
Rthor
Smugglers Inc.
#43 - 2013-11-24 21:30:51 UTC
Debra Tao wrote:
oh and my interpretation of a Pareto optimal is right, thank you very much.


Because Debra Tao says so.
Rthor
Smugglers Inc.
#44 - 2013-11-24 21:38:52 UTC
We need more commies or central market planners in this thread. Calling you all out for a discussion.
Debra Tao
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-11-24 22:08:52 UTC
That's why we cannot have nice things.
Adunh Slavy
#46 - 2013-11-24 23:03:34 UTC
Debra Tao wrote:
That's why we cannot have nice things.



Just steal nice things from others, in the name of equality and fairness. That justifies all sorts of crimes.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Rthor
Smugglers Inc.
#47 - 2013-11-24 23:23:24 UTC
Oh geez. Let's all make some isk in this thread.

Running a tower is becoming more expensive. But this is only so for Caldari towers so far, I think. These are the ones to use nitropes. At some point, and I dont know when and why Caldari towers are so expensive to run, people will switch to other towers. So other isotopes are probably at their lows because nitropes are bid up. I would stay away from nitropes for now because of substitution effect. It is probably a bother to redo a POS with a different tower but at some point it will make sense. I think that substitution effect will keep a lid on nitropes until the other isotopes catch up. So you may be OK investing in other isotopes but it may take time.

With PI patch the cost of PIs is going up so that is also going to increase cost of fuel blocks. If I am wrong please let me know.

But I dont invest in nitropes. As I said I invest in second or third derivatives of a trend. So I bought 20 million of crystalline carbonide yesterday. I don't know if this is the right move. But I figured that with ice going up and PI the cost of running all towers will go up. For really sexy towers it might not matter but for the basic really boring towers the cost of running them will matter which will cause them to ask for isk or shut down, thus limiting supply of non sexy stuff like carbides.

Then with siphons the supply of all moon minerals will decrease somewhat. I am not sure of overall effect of this on towers. Sexy towers will get impacted probably. Non-sexy towers might not get impacted at all.

So I picked crystalline carbides since I am Gallente and said what the hell.

If I am wrong please let me know so that I can save some isk.
Debra Tao
Perkone
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-11-24 23:50:35 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Debra Tao wrote:
That's why we cannot have nice things.



Just steal nice things from others, in the name of equality and fairness. That justifies all sorts of crimes.


It's not stealing if it's the law Cool
Adunh Slavy
#49 - 2013-11-25 04:14:35 UTC
Debra Tao wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Debra Tao wrote:
That's why we cannot have nice things.



Just steal nice things from others, in the name of equality and fairness. That justifies all sorts of crimes.


It's not stealing if it's the law Cool



I can tell you have never read Bastiat. Your slavish love of the State is disgusting.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Debra Tao
Perkone
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-11-25 11:54:57 UTC
Oh well so much for the calm debate around an interesting issue.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#51 - 2013-11-25 12:51:55 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#52 - 2013-11-25 14:52:38 UTC
Rthor wrote:
Oh geez. Let's all make some isk in this thread.


That's in the end is what trading is about.


Rthor wrote:

So you may be OK investing in other isotopes but it may take time.


It was OK when they swinged low, now the best opportunities are gone already.

I did a moderate investment in isotopes (some tens of billions) and it's shaping up nicely. Already offloaded 8B to take some profit, will do more when price will get where it wants to go. It's all written, since months, in these optimized and random walk markets Twisted

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
adriaans
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
#53 - 2013-11-27 03:00:32 UTC
Rthor wrote:
Oh geez. Let's all make some isk in this thread.

Running a tower is becoming more expensive. But this is only so for Caldari towers so far, I think. These are the ones to use nitropes. At some point, and I dont know when and why Caldari towers are so expensive to run, people will switch to other towers. So other isotopes are probably at their lows because nitropes are bid up. I would stay away from nitropes for now because of substitution effect. It is probably a bother to redo a POS with a different tower but at some point it will make sense. I think that substitution effect will keep a lid on nitropes until the other isotopes catch up. So you may be OK investing in other isotopes but it may take time.

With PI patch the cost of PIs is going up so that is also going to increase cost of fuel blocks. If I am wrong please let me know.

But I dont invest in nitropes. As I said I invest in second or third derivatives of a trend. So I bought 20 million of crystalline carbonide yesterday. I don't know if this is the right move. But I figured that with ice going up and PI the cost of running all towers will go up. For really sexy towers it might not matter but for the basic really boring towers the cost of running them will matter which will cause them to ask for isk or shut down, thus limiting supply of non sexy stuff like carbides.

Then with siphons the supply of all moon minerals will decrease somewhat. I am not sure of overall effect of this on towers. Sexy towers will get impacted probably. Non-sexy towers might not get impacted at all.

So I picked crystalline carbides since I am Gallente and said what the hell.

If I am wrong please let me know so that I can save some isk.


Caldari towers are needed for optimal T2 invention + production towers using 3 characters I believe, so most are probably willing to pay fairly high given they'd need a 2nd tower using any other racial tower when switching (Tower CPU is the issue).

----True oldschool solo pvp'er---- My latest vid: Insanity IV
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#54 - 2013-12-02 13:53:17 UTC
yes
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