EVE General Discussion

We are not NRDS and we are not NBSI either. we are BSWF (Be Safe While Flying).

BSWF involves getting safe if neuts or unknowns come into our area. We collect intel on them and if they are doing something like using combat scanner probes then they are seen as a threat and we may fleet up and shoot them.

I can see that you are a keen follower of social norms within eve, thou must join a corp in sov, thou must not mine in npc 0.0, thou must practice NBSI.

I want to contribute to breaking these social norms and show people there's a different way. You probably would'nt do well down here because you may never come out of your comfort zone.

There's a giga tonne of minerals out here, I find it very odd that people like you would ignore the ore/minerals that are blatantly infront of your eyes, and you refuse to accept the logic in devising a method to mine these minerals here in Stain.

Open your mind a little bit here buddy, we have the right and the power to see where this leads and to see if we can make a success, I am having lots of fun at the minute reasoning with other blues and trying to make this work.

You're seriously trying to tell me a group of blues can't set up in Stain? Nonsense!

"be safe while flying" doesn't mean anything because it applies equally to everyone in nearly every situation. BSWF sounds more like a semantic belly-flop to bolster your uniqueness rather than an actual policy. I understand you want to establish that you're not a kill-everything-that-moves group, without the stigma of gullibility and incompetence surrounding NRDS groups (and for many NRDS groups, it is in fact just a stigma). Maybe try out "relaxed-NBSI," or NBSIIYWT (Not blue shoot it if you want to).

A serious suggestion, how about NBWI ? Not-Blue-Watch-It. That at least gives some direction to the acronym.


The value in mining isn't in finding minerals, because there's literally a giga tonne of minerals everywhere. The value is in the effort of actually mining and moving the damn stuff, not in having it all over your neighborhood. The ore itself is not a reason to come to Stain. The reason to come is everything else you've talked about. Setting up a community, setting up a market, making isk, having fun. The fact that mining is a possible option is a good thing, but don't try to play it like an advantage or inticement. The disadvantages of mining in stain are numerous and non-trivial. People won't take you seriously if you downplay them.



I never said that. By those criteria Hub Zero is not at all unique. I've been part of such a community and it was a blast. The fact that they're blues means you are in fact using the corp/alliance structure.

I've refrained from trolling this thread because despite the dam weird way you phrase just about everything, you're actually trying to DO something which is a right fair bit better then 99% of the carebears and miners that come to these forums to cry and moan.

---

That being said, I gotta ask:

Why mining? Stain has the arguably best level 4 missions in all of npc 0.0 . There's legit decent isk to be had. With the isk/lp you make, you could far more readily (and safely) mission run, and then import any ships/minerals you need from highsec with the logistics support you claim to have. You'll get your "hub" operational far faster and more effectively.

Why go for 30mil isk/hr mining when you can go for 150mil isk/hr mission running? As an additional perk, getting standings up for True Power and True Creations is ridiculously fast. If you can't find a quiet level 4 mission hub, you could almost certainly find a level 3 hub and blitz those using this method for 80-120 mil isk/hr.

Source: having lived in stain extensively in the distant past.

That's kind of the entire point.

For my part mining is only really going to be to make up shortfalls in specific minerals, the main way of course will be gun mining and hauler spawns and of course supplemented by logistical activities. The funny thing about mining is that no one expects you to do it, which is the point, but I agree with the people who say that mining in Stain is sub-optimal, it is and I agree that it is not a reason to come to Stain. I gave back the JF when I decided to leave the game, however now that I decided to stay I feel a bit off asking the player concerned to borrow one again, and in any case I was just not comfortable jumping a JF belonging to another person into a certain part of Stain.

And this gets to the missions, next door to our base system is a level 4 mission hub and I know that some of the people joining us will do level 4 missions, for my own part I have standings issues to think about, however one of my toons will go down the route of doing them, I therefore will need to sort out a mission ship. Potato said a quiet mission hub, that really does not exist in Stain in the Russian TZ in any case, but US players and late night Europeans can do them quite safely. This makes you of course a more important target, which is why I have not really looked at it in detail, still doing that operate beneath the radar stuff. However acceleration gates are something that helps in protecting your mission ship and when we have more people of course we can be more secure, I have no issue being eyes and protecting people running them.

I noticed that in Providence people sometimes kept operating when a neut was in local, we don't do that, yes we do use orange, red, blue and light blue standings, but we do not actively hunt neutrals acting in a non-threatening way. I like the relaxed NBSI comment that Batelle said, I think that it really says it, in terms of if the neutral is not threatening then we will leave them alone, however the mode of operation is be safe while flying, which is to minimize risk, the fact is that there are various other things that you can do if you get one of the BLOP's fools AFK cloakies in the system you wish to operate, just go and do something else, leave them to sit there festering alone.

Anyway, its the act of doing things together with chilled out people which is more fun, and people contribute as they feel fit.

EDIT: People also seem to be locked into this Isk/per hour thing, the thing is that makes people very vulnerable, when they made the changes with drone damage modules, I noticed people switching to drone carriers, however while they have great DPS, they so much easier to catch and a poor tank, so your ISK/per hour should also take into account the greater risk of losing your ship and of course the replacement cost, I noted quite a lot of people who ratted like crazy, to replace lost ratting ships, I used Fighters and was aligned and never lost a carrier, my ISK/per hour was less but I did not need to repalce a carrier every week. And this is what we mean by being chill, we don't pay rent to fund other peoples ships, we are not fixated on ISK/hour, we make ISK for ourselves and we control the risk. My philosophy is simply to be difficult to kill above anything else!

This is in line with what i said earlier on so i agree fully .

Just to reemphasize this point:

When this thread started to take off I borrowed Dracvlad a Rhea saying "Use this to get Hub Zero off the ground, return it whenever you like".

He returned it after a few weeks having used it only a single time.

When I read his post about how hard the lack of a Rorqual or jumpfreighter make logistics I was at first somewhat dumbfounded. Why would someone return the jf he has been borrowed for an indefinite amount of time only to complain about the lack of a jf right after?

But you know, having a jf would make things easy. The Hub Zero group could just import whatever they need, one of the big challenges the hub faces would be resolved. It would without doubt be a great step forward towards making Hub Zero a success - but the point of Hub Zero is to be this nearly insurmountable challenge with Aaron and Dracvlad managing to persevere against all odds, not to be a success.

Talk about your adversity narrative... Is making a successful npc-sec community not good enough? you have to do it while being poor and without logistics?



Which makes it meaningless. You can't compare it to NBSI or NRDS. NBWI is what you guys should go with. But that idea is probably too good and came from an outsider, so it has only a snowball's chance in hell of being adopted over Aaron's established terminology. Substantively, it should be the call of the pilots or ranking online FC to decide who gets shot and who doesn't.



Its a matter of using the right tools for the job. I never said they had to be under a single alliance. If you want to be different you can camp gates and let haulers through. Using a standings list and a set other hub zero corps/alliesto +10/+5 is just common sense. You don't need to abolish all forms of structure to achieve what they're trying to achieve, unless you care more about how it looks than your own success.

Also, Vera's account is pretty damning.

Where to begin, lets talk about the Rhea first, that was a wonderful thing that our friend did, however, I really had issues jumping that into Stain, the issue being that it was just not secure enough for me, so I did not feel comfortable using and losing someone else's JF. At this point I have decided to sell a load of assets in hisec to buy one for myself, however what makes the difference is now I have the carrier support that I wanted when jumping in. Aaron asked me to go back to the person who kindly donated his Rhea and ask if he was willing to lend us it again, but I feel bad mucking him around, so refused. In any case, at this point I can support the exploration market easily with a carrier and will expend when I have the JF. Do you think I should go back and ask him if he is willing to lend me it again?

In terms of missions, I have not discounted them at all, some people will come along and will do them, you seem to have ignored my post where I pointed out that they were BLOP magnets and that they tended to get interest from certain people. The belt ratting is purely the below the radar thing, the emphasis is that people tend to go after shinier stuff, so is that really so difficult to understand? My own reasons for not doing Sansha missions is more to do with full freedom of movement in hisec for my toons. I do sites, I do belts ratting I do anomalies, and I will help people do missions as needed, that Aaron or myself don't do Sansha missions is not important to any of this.

In terms of BrutalButUnfair, I have a real reason not to want him around, he made multiple attack posts on Aaron in the past and started here again. Neither Aaron or myself can be bothered to have these type of drama merchants around us, so we told him to get on his bike, simple as. To say that Aaron is insane because he lost a number of ships when helping this person is an odd thing to say.

As for the alliance side of things, I have the intention of creating and holding a dedicated alliance for Hub Zero, I was going to do it sooner rather than later but the decision to buy the JF has stopped me, another thing was that the alliance leader of Pirate Nation was going to hand over the alliance to me, but I think he has had second thoughts, no issue on my part, I appreciate the initial offer greatly and could understand why he has now decided not to. And the alliance is really just a vehicle to make it easier, people do not have to join it.

Anyway the main people we are getting are experienced people who want to do their own thing, seems to be developing nicely.