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500m ISK (Trading Capital)
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Precator Orti
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-11-18 17:45:18 UTC
With 500 million ISK and Margin Trading set to Level 4, what value of items should I be looking to trade in for the most part.

5 - 10 mil

more,less?
Shappee
Labskaus and Mintsauce
#2 - 2013-11-18 18:50:36 UTC
Hi, I don´t think that there is a good rule of thumb on individual price levels of the goods you trade. I´d rather think how much turnover you can make in a certain period of time and invest accordingly. (hope that makes sense). Spread the 500mil on quite a few products and see how it goes. what moves fast/slow, do you make enough profit from it after taxes etc.

While ago i started with 1bil starting capital. I tried to find products where i can make at least 10% profit (after tax etc) but don´t invest more than 100mil in to keep a good spread. Took 3 months of lazy trading and I am up to 2.5bil now.

Tldr: Don´t bother with price, keep the focus on isk/time ratio.
Jerex Deka
Tempest Shipyards
#3 - 2013-11-18 21:34:25 UTC
When I first started I had about 300m starting capital, what I did was go down the market, item by item, looking for what I thought to be the best items to trade. I looked at stuff in this order, PRICE > MARGIN > VOLUME. Since I have no standings I wanted to stay above 10% margins no matter what, and often turned down 10% margins and went for 15-20% just incase prices fell I'd be safer.

Now with the margins I also pretty much hand in handed that with volume. If I saw an item that I could double my money on, but sells, 1 every few days, I wouldn't do it. I look for a minimum of a dozen or two per day.

Lastly I *try* to follow my instincts with the price history table. (I ignore the graph) and see what kind of swings the item has, and how often.. Although sometimes I ignore it just because theres some great margins at the moment. But in those times I put up smaller buy orders, no more than 10ish typically.

Finding just a handful of items like that and you'll start earning serious money back on that 500m.

Personally I wouldn't trade in over a few dozen items unless I was working with billions, you don't wanna get spread out too thin and not be able to pay when someone wants to sell you something.

Oh and to answer your question on cost of items, I would try for the 3-10m range, but if you see a nice spread on a more expensive item you'll have to make that call. I would try and keep around 25% of your escrow in liquid isk.
Precator Orti
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-11-18 21:39:05 UTC
Jerex Deka wrote:
When I first started I had about 300m starting capital, what I did was go down the market, item by item, looking for what I thought to be the best items to trade. I looked at stuff in this order, PRICE > MARGIN > VOLUME. Since I have no standings I wanted to stay above 10% margins no matter what, and often turned down 10% margins and went for 15-20% just incase prices fell I'd be safer.

Now with the margins I also pretty much hand in handed that with volume. If I saw an item that I could double my money on, but sells, 1 every few days, I wouldn't do it. I look for a minimum of a dozen or two per day.

Lastly I *try* to follow my instincts with the price history table. (I ignore the graph) and see what kind of swings the item has, and how often.. Although sometimes I ignore it just because theres some great margins at the moment. But in those times I put up smaller buy orders, no more than 10ish typically.

Finding just a handful of items like that and you'll start earning serious money back on that 500m.

Personally I wouldn't trade in over a few dozen items unless I was working with billions, you don't wanna get spread out too thin and not be able to pay when someone wants to sell you something.

Oh and to answer your question on cost of items, I would try for the 3-10m range, but if you see a nice spread on a more expensive item you'll have to make that call. I would try and keep around 25% of your escrow in liquid isk.


Ya once I didnt have enough money to pay for a buy trade. Question, I know the escrow gets refunded if the trade doesnt go through but does the brokers fee get refunded too?
Jerex Deka
Tempest Shipyards
#5 - 2013-11-18 22:41:54 UTC
Precator Orti wrote:
Jerex Deka wrote:
When I first started I had about 300m starting capital, what I did was go down the market, item by item, looking for what I thought to be the best items to trade. I looked at stuff in this order, PRICE > MARGIN > VOLUME. Since I have no standings I wanted to stay above 10% margins no matter what, and often turned down 10% margins and went for 15-20% just incase prices fell I'd be safer.

Now with the margins I also pretty much hand in handed that with volume. If I saw an item that I could double my money on, but sells, 1 every few days, I wouldn't do it. I look for a minimum of a dozen or two per day.

Lastly I *try* to follow my instincts with the price history table. (I ignore the graph) and see what kind of swings the item has, and how often.. Although sometimes I ignore it just because theres some great margins at the moment. But in those times I put up smaller buy orders, no more than 10ish typically.

Finding just a handful of items like that and you'll start earning serious money back on that 500m.

Personally I wouldn't trade in over a few dozen items unless I was working with billions, you don't wanna get spread out too thin and not be able to pay when someone wants to sell you something.

Oh and to answer your question on cost of items, I would try for the 3-10m range, but if you see a nice spread on a more expensive item you'll have to make that call. I would try and keep around 25% of your escrow in liquid isk.


Ya once I didnt have enough money to pay for a buy trade. Question, I know the escrow gets refunded if the trade doesnt go through but does the brokers fee get refunded too?



Nope broker keeps his fee, that bastard.
Nedly Stark
ARAZ Engineering
#6 - 2013-11-19 00:00:00 UTC
Ive been trading with level 4 fees for a while now.. as i start to increase my cash and start trading more and more inbegin to see how much the fees begin to stack up..
Jerex Deka
Tempest Shipyards
#7 - 2013-11-19 00:43:39 UTC
It definitely adds up after awhile, that and having no standings.

From 10/18-11/18 I spent 762,775,079.33 ISK on broker fees, another 302,951,239.78 ISK for taxes.

These figures are with broker relations 4.
LittleTerror
Stygian Systems
#8 - 2013-11-25 13:08:02 UTC
Precator Orti wrote:
With 500 million ISK and Margin Trading set to Level 4, what value of items should I be looking to trade in for the most part.

5 - 10 mil

more,less?


Try TREND> VOLUME > MARGIN as your basic set of rules and stick to them, next break out of your comfort zones and try experimenting with items you would have not even considered and you must have patience.
Gerald Sphinx
Marauding Dragons
#9 - 2013-11-25 18:43:24 UTC
With starting capital like that, I would invest no more than 50 million ISK into buy orders. Bear in mind that it will be a while before you start seeing effective returns as there will be times when your initial investments turn bad.

Pros with Margin Trading: If no one fills your buy orders, you get your money back minus broker fees which are cheap.

Cons: You run the risk of finding a lot of people filling your buy orders but no one taking your sell orders for the same item. As a result, you end up with inventory that doesn't move. And inventory that doesn't move is cash not flowing.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-11-25 19:07:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
Precator Orti wrote:
With 500 million ISK and Margin Trading set to Level 4, what value of items should I be looking to trade in for the most part.

5 - 10 mil

more,less?


I would suggest keeping an eye on Volume rather than specific price points, at least until you are satisfied you can take advantage of both.

Keep an eye out for rapidly consumable commodities that have a steady volume and in regular demand by different segments of the EVE economy. Example: mining crystals for miners.

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