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[CCP opinion requested] Remove learning implants from the game.
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ConranAntoni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#121 - 2013-11-20 05:56:33 UTC
Ban thread, gas OP.

Holy **** these threads get so bad with their tortured logic I almost want to read EN24.

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supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#122 - 2013-11-20 06:16:14 UTC
+1

You can't actively play the game while you have learning implants in, your too big of a target so you sit there

With the one year pay off for +5 implants it's really only something long standing players living in high/low can use isk effectively.

Players should not waste time and resources on learning skills/ items and should instead be focusing entirely on the game play.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#123 - 2013-11-20 06:47:32 UTC
It totaly makes sense. +1 OP Big smile

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Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#124 - 2013-11-20 09:28:12 UTC
ConranAntoni wrote:
Ban thread, gas OP.

Holy **** these threads get so bad with their tortured logic I almost want to read EN24.


Please explain what is wrong with the OP's logic. Otherwise you are offering nothing to the discussion.
Cydelle Abraham
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2013-11-20 10:13:48 UTC
+1 from me
Reiisha
#126 - 2013-11-20 13:08:41 UTC
This is not a bad idea actually, even though i've got a set of +5's myself. Removing those implants would make PvP a bit more accessible as well, it might help to get more people involved in low- and nullsec activities since 'the burden of cost' or the 'loss of training time' isn't an issue anymore.

On the other hand - And this is what few people have commented on so far - It does beg the question on whether to even keep working with attributes at all, since this pretty much trivializes them even more than the remap feature did. If learning implants are removed, attributes need to be looked at. Maybe they need a totally different function.

Personally i'm actually for giving all races a fixed attribute bonus, +5 in total (not more than +7) to certain attritbutes to at least give some meaning to race and attributes... Whether or not implants are removed.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Clementina
University of Caille
#127 - 2013-11-20 15:24:36 UTC
I came expecting a very bad idea, but reading it it actually looks like a somewhat good idea. I'm not sure I actually support it, but it does deserve consideration and I gave the poster a like.

Although implementing this idea would probably take a rethinking of what attributes should mean with respect to the game.
LOL56
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#128 - 2013-11-20 15:50:46 UTC
I normally PvP with +3s or +4s in my head. most of the people in this thread need to HTFU.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#129 - 2013-11-20 15:54:25 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
Personally i'm actually for giving all races a fixed attribute bonus, +5 in total (not more than +7) to certain attritbutes to at least give some meaning to race and attributes... Whether or not implants are removed.

This is what CCP got rid of and equalized attributes across races/bloodlines. If you return this you'll see another wave of "Caldari Achura Monk" supermacy.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Lord Battlestar
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia
#130 - 2013-11-20 19:11:30 UTC
I kind of like the idea.

I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#131 - 2013-11-20 19:44:26 UTC
such a hard choice

I have a list of things I want to do ...
most of those things revolve around skill based access

which brings me to my choice statement

do I want to be able to achieve those ambitions in 900 or more days
do I want to be able to achieve those ambitions in 800 or less days

so no, it's not really a choice at all
clearly I want the less than 800 days option
therefore I need learning implants to stay to achieve my goals in a timely fashion
Sun-Tugo Drovotet
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2013-11-28 16:59:47 UTC
Kirkwood Ross wrote:
Elsbeth Taron wrote:
I've been thinking of players going to a medical station and paying isk to have one of their base attributes bumped permanently by +1. Each bump becomes much more expensive to do; the equivalent of +5 implant being for the super-rich only.

This creates an isk sink.

This means people don't need to switch clones.

This means people don't lose the bonus when they're podded, removing the risk-aversion stuff from play.

This removes learning implants from play, leaving implants to boost abilities. PvPers can have 10 combat-oriented implants in their heads, researchers can have 10 scientific implants, etc..

Naturally those wearing currently +5 implants will howl at the notion of losing this boost until they can pay for it, but no one said the game was fair. This topic is about getting people out of the stations and into space; this idea may help.


I'd be willing to dump billions into this idea if I can keep my old +5s in addition to the stat bonus.

As the title of the topic is about removing implants from the game you just notified everyone as to your poor comprehension of the written word. Nice! Are you the one who thinks only virgins fly ships in nulsec?
Sun-Tugo Drovotet
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2013-11-28 17:03:12 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
This is not a bad idea actually, even though i've got a set of +5's myself. Removing those implants would make PvP a bit more accessible as well, it might help to get more people involved in low- and nullsec activities since 'the burden of cost' or the 'loss of training time' isn't an issue anymore.

On the other hand - And this is what few people have commented on so far - It does beg the question on whether to even keep working with attributes at all, since this pretty much trivializes them even more than the remap feature did. If learning implants are removed, attributes need to be looked at. Maybe they need a totally different function.

Personally i'm actually for giving all races a fixed attribute bonus, +5 in total (not more than +7) to certain attritbutes to at least give some meaning to race and attributes... Whether or not implants are removed.

A long time ago the four races were different, but there were whines from players about how they wanted to do stuff that other races found easier and "it's not fair!!!" so the differences were removed. I'm all for the races being different, for exactly the reason you give: making it mean something.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#134 - 2013-11-28 18:52:15 UTC
SOL Ranger wrote:



  • They benefit the rich most.
  • They benefit veterans the most.


name one part of the game where above is not the case....

you have a tradeoff between learning an money if your hanging in null youll have tradeoff between loosing much isk or learning slower.

you have tradeoff between sets (+3 +bonus) or pure learning those implant would loose one of their drawbacks if youd make a baseline ....

to me learning implants are a vital isk sink in the game.
this game hase better moneysink than most mmo but if it needs even more not less.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#135 - 2013-11-28 19:31:38 UTC
It might make it harder for new players to catch up though so I'm not sure I like it
Quontor Zarrkos
Island Monkeys
#136 - 2013-11-28 20:02:59 UTC
I'm all for this, would remove the requirement of training cybernetics IV/V just to make sure you train faster and then fly around in expensive pods (I would bring a sabre guys but I'm in this clone....)

Having recently moved to wormholes myself and lost the ability to use jump clones, this would be a major improvement to our quality of life.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#137 - 2013-11-28 22:30:10 UTC
SOL Ranger wrote:
This has been presented several times in the past, I'm now hoping you(CCP) could share your thoughts on the subject if it is an action you feel makes sense or if you are against it.
I'm sure you developers are fully aware of the problems concerning learning implants but I'll list some quite obvious effects they bring about.


  • They benefit the inactive/offline the most.
  • They benefit station campers the most.
  • They benefit carebears the most.
  • They benefit the rich most.
  • They benefit veterans the most.
  • They suffer the same downsides as did learning skills.
  • They suffer the additional downside of costing much thus not only do you need to focus your skills on cyber V first but you also need to save up for the implants immediately after as well, or fall behind.
  • You continually lose potential SP when actively playing the game with purpose built implants rather than pure learning implants.


Quite often I'm seeing myself staying docked and closing the client to train rather than play because I CBA. to change clone into less optimal learning implants and lose hours, possibly even days worth of SP because of that one or several gaming sessions.
Those who actually decide to go out and play, most notably interact in PvP and pod each other, those are the ones who suffer the real consequences, not only do they lose SP due to almost never having V's plugged in but they lose their IV's or III's when their pods pop. It makes little sense for a game supposed to promote PvP and yet punish those who then participate in it the most.

It is not an interesting nor exciting choice deciding to either play and lose efficiency or staying offline or docked while benefiting more, essentially playing 'optimally' when not playing.

What could be done is to remove the learning implants and make '+3 implants' baseline, people will rage about this but it's a reasonable suggestion, +5's made baseline might be just as fine a solution, I'm not sure, I'm just sure the learning implants must be removed.

Bottom line:
Rich inactive veteran station hugging carebears benefit the most
Poor active newbie proactive PvP'ers suffer the most

[EDIT] I see some are asking what about Slaves/Crystals etc, the idea is to merely strip the learning attributes from all those implants.


why don't you just get rid of skills too while you are at at it and do some more dumbing down of the game, better yet get rid of characters too, no more clones as they only benefit those people with skill points, which we wont need anymore when characters are gone and we can all fly every ship and use every item without having to train for it. When you get killed and your ship blows up you'll just magically re-appear in the last station you docked at, all of which wrecks the flavour of eve. This is where changes like this are headed so a big fat no from me.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Kane Fenris
NWP
#138 - 2013-11-28 22:30:58 UTC
Quontor Zarrkos wrote:
I'm all for this, would remove the requirement of training cybernetics IV/V just to make sure you train faster and then fly around in expensive pods (I would bring a sabre guys but I'm in this clone....)

Having recently moved to wormholes myself and lost the ability to use jump clones, this would be a major improvement to our quality of life.



nobody trains V just fpor the learning it takes a year of training to be worth it you train V only for HG crystal etc...

cant you use clone facilitys and or rorqal clone bays inside of a wh?
never lived in one
Yaturi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2013-11-29 03:41:38 UTC
Should have gotten rid of them like ******* yesterday
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#140 - 2013-12-17 21:51:28 UTC
Bump. This is too great of an idea to be this buried.