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I scared a new corp member and he ragequited EVE

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Leonardo Diom
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#81 - 2013-11-18 18:44:30 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


I don't really care what you want to call me, and I don't really care for your opinion of my opinion, either. The point is, if you're going to DIAGNOSE people with 'mental illnesses' just because they're behaving in a way that you, with your subjective application of your own moral values to a video game, think is 'bad', then you're wrong, and it sounds more like spiteful, prescriptive retaliation for the sake of getting your own kick out of trying to make the person who made you feel bad also feel bad by labelling them as a 'sociopath' when in fact there is nothing about being a sociopath that is bad just by virtue of being a sociopath.

And I think you're missing, largely, my point here. I'm not defending anyone's behaviour, I'm just saying stop being armchair psychologists who think you know something you don't. This applies to anyone who's ever applied the word 'sociopath' or similar to behaviour of players in VIDEO GAMES, that point being the ONLY diagnostic criteria you know of the player. It's pathetic, it's wrong, it's ridiculous, it belittles real mental illness and adds negative connotations to the illness unnecessarily, thereby increasing the disdain with which people look down on people with REAL sociopathic tendencies, like myself.

You know, a girlfriend dumped me once when she found out I was a sociopath. That was the only reason, the use of the words "I'm a sociopath." It was nothing I'd done, just the label. The first thing she asked me was, "what, do you like, torture small animals or something?" It's **** like this calling people sociopaths just because of 'bad behaviour' or otherwise unusual behaviour that you can't otherwise understand, and sometimes have no business trying to understand, that a sociopath these days is just seen as a bad person just by virtue of the word sociopath having these negative connotations. If you do it, you're a ****.


Capitalising random words doesn't really help you in proving your point either. It makes you seem slightly upset.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2013-11-18 18:45:40 UTC
Anslo wrote:
For saying that people don't feel pain or misery from a game, you sure seem upset.

By the way, I'm one of those 'sociopaths' who is, in fact, calling you out on your bullshit.


Calling me out with what, exactly? What have you brought to the table except ignorance and denial that I should care?


I'm not referring to anything that was done to me in the game, smartarse, I'm referring to the ignorant people who lived such sheltered lives that real world problems don't seem to matter as much as video game problems.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#83 - 2013-11-18 18:49:08 UTC
Why are we worried about our pixels when natural disasters have happened?

Because I can see my pixels.
Anslo
Scope Works
#84 - 2013-11-18 18:50:32 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Calling me out with what, exactly? What have you brought to the table except ignorance and denial that I should care?

You said that it's a fact that people don't feel misery from losing a ship on Eve. You then proceeded to say everyone else who had a different statement were only voicing opinions.

I requested you provide evidence to show your opinion as fact. You did not. I am now calling you out on it.

I'm also calling you out for being a ****.


Quote:
I'm not referring to anything that was done to me in the game, smartarse, I'm referring to the ignorant people who lived such sheltered lives that real world problems don't seem to matter as much as video game problems.

So because you don't react to an action in a game, but other people do, your lack of reaction is fact just because?
m8

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2013-11-18 18:51:23 UTC
Leonardo Diom wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


I don't really care what you want to call me, and I don't really care for your opinion of my opinion, either. The point is, if you're going to DIAGNOSE people with 'mental illnesses' just because they're behaving in a way that you, with your subjective application of your own moral values to a video game, think is 'bad', then you're wrong, and it sounds more like spiteful, prescriptive retaliation for the sake of getting your own kick out of trying to make the person who made you feel bad also feel bad by labelling them as a 'sociopath' when in fact there is nothing about being a sociopath that is bad just by virtue of being a sociopath.

And I think you're missing, largely, my point here. I'm not defending anyone's behaviour, I'm just saying stop being armchair psychologists who think you know something you don't. This applies to anyone who's ever applied the word 'sociopath' or similar to behaviour of players in VIDEO GAMES, that point being the ONLY diagnostic criteria you know of the player. It's pathetic, it's wrong, it's ridiculous, it belittles real mental illness and adds negative connotations to the illness unnecessarily, thereby increasing the disdain with which people look down on people with REAL sociopathic tendencies, like myself.

You know, a girlfriend dumped me once when she found out I was a sociopath. That was the only reason, the use of the words "I'm a sociopath." It was nothing I'd done, just the label. The first thing she asked me was, "what, do you like, torture small animals or something?" It's **** like this calling people sociopaths just because of 'bad behaviour' or otherwise unusual behaviour that you can't otherwise understand, and sometimes have no business trying to understand, that a sociopath these days is just seen as a bad person just by virtue of the word sociopath having these negative connotations. If you do it, you're a ****.


Capitalising random words doesn't really help you in proving your point either. It makes you seem slightly upset.


I am slightly upset. Of course, anyone who reads and understands the content would also understand why I am upset, and my being upset would not alter the meaning of the content in any way.

Let me nutshell it for you.

When you say something like, "he did something bad, he must have a mental illness", you're not getting what it means to be mentally ill, and it reinforces the notion that mentally ill people are bad people. That then results in people saying stuff like, 'Oh, you're mentally ill? You must be a bad person."

You understand? Unless you're qualified on the subject of mental illness, you're insulting your own intelligence by making assumptions about it, and perpetuating the stereotypes of mental illness that make life harder for people who really suffer from real misery.

Don't even try to pretend that **** that happens in a video game is going to cause real misery. And yes, I've been backstabbed in this game myself. I got together with some friends and sacked the wormhole and two poses that those guys that backstabbed me had, stole over 30bil worth of stuff, and got over it. I would have got over it even if that didn't happen, because it's just a game.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2013-11-18 18:53:17 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Calling me out with what, exactly? What have you brought to the table except ignorance and denial that I should care?

You said that it's a fact that people don't feel misery from losing a ship on Eve. You then proceeded to say everyone else who had a different statement were only voicing opinions.

I requested you provide evidence to show your opinion as fact. You did not. I am now calling you out on it.

I'm also calling you out for being a ****.


Quote:
I'm not referring to anything that was done to me in the game, smartarse, I'm referring to the ignorant people who lived such sheltered lives that real world problems don't seem to matter as much as video game problems.

So because you don't react to an action in a game, but other people do, your lack of reaction is fact just because?
m8


That last part... that's not really what I said now was it. And you still haven't called me out on anything, because I'm the one doing the calling, and you're the one continuing to miss my point. You're very good at missing points.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Leonardo Diom
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#87 - 2013-11-18 18:58:46 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Don't even try to pretend that **** that happens in a video game is going to cause real misery. And yes, I've been backstabbed in this game myself. I got together with some friends and sacked the wormhole and two poses that those guys that backstabbed me had, stole over 30bil worth of stuff, and got over it. I would have got over it even if that didn't happen, because it's just a game.


The people you play with are real though and they could very well cause real misery. Easily getting over being backstabbed might simply mean you don't value your friendship as much as others do. I don't intend to say the reaction of the noob player was justified but I do understand how he might have gotten upset: he valued his friendship with someone and trusted that person, who then went on to do something which reduced that trust.
Anslo
Scope Works
#88 - 2013-11-18 18:58:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Remiel Pollard wrote:
That last part... that's not really what I said now was it.

Yes. It was. You said it's a fact that people don't feel misery from losing a ship. You then said you know this because you do not feel pain.

Quote:
And you still haven't called me out on anything, because I'm the one doing the calling, and you're the one continuing to miss my point. You're very good at missing points.


See

Quote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Calling me out with what, exactly? What have you brought to the table except ignorance and denial that I should care?

Anslo wrote:
You said that it's a fact that people don't feel misery from losing a ship on Eve. You then proceeded to say everyone else who had a different statement were only voicing opinions.

I requested you provide evidence to show your opinion as fact. You did not. I am now calling you out on it.

I'm also calling you out for being a ****..


You seem to be better at missing points as well.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#89 - 2013-11-18 19:04:54 UTC
Leonardo Diom wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Don't even try to pretend that **** that happens in a video game is going to cause real misery. And yes, I've been backstabbed in this game myself. I got together with some friends and sacked the wormhole and two poses that those guys that backstabbed me had, stole over 30bil worth of stuff, and got over it. I would have got over it even if that didn't happen, because it's just a game.


The people you play with are real though and they could very well cause real misery. Easily getting over being backstabbed might simply mean you don't value your friendship as much as others do. I don't intend to say the reaction of the noob player was justified but I do understand how he might have gotten upset: he valued his friendship with someone and trusted that person, who then went on to do something which reduced that trust.


I'd be more put off by someone refusing to talk to me after a brilliant game move than someone who pulled it off and kept being friends with me. IE, the relationship isn't shattered by what happened in a game. If they're my actual friend, they'll still be my friend after a move in a game that hurts my position and helps theirs - that's the POINT of gaming.

But if they stopped talking to me afterwards, then I would be upset, because the relationship is over - either it never existed to start with, or they are taking the game way too seriously.

IE, I convoed the guy who killed me last time (forgot to say gf though, but it was an amicable chat) just to find out what I did wrong and what I could do better, and if my fit was crap or not. Why? Because he's playing a game too and I need to learn from EVERYBODY I can, and make friends everywhere I can, even if it's by fighting and getting killed (some people respect that).
Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#90 - 2013-11-18 19:06:28 UTC
That is, giving people access to things that help them more than they can be helped going forward by continuing with whatever agreement you reached is DUMB.

If the other person you're giving access to is going to be benefitted more by continuing the arrangement where you can both benefit, then you can give access rights. If they will be benefitted more by stealing your stuff, expect that and don't give access.
Leonardo Diom
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#91 - 2013-11-18 19:22:18 UTC
Jythier Smith wrote:



I'd be more put off by someone refusing to talk to me after a brilliant game move than someone who pulled it off and kept being friends with me. IE, the relationship isn't shattered by what happened in a game. If they're my actual friend, they'll still be my friend after a move in a game that hurts my position and helps theirs - that's the POINT of gaming.

But if they stopped talking to me afterwards, then I would be upset, because the relationship is over - either it never existed to start with, or they are taking the game way too seriously.

IE, I convoed the guy who killed me last time (forgot to say gf though, but it was an amicable chat) just to find out what I did wrong and what I could do better, and if my fit was crap or not. Why? Because he's playing a game too and I need to learn from EVERYBODY I can, and make friends everywhere I can, even if it's by fighting and getting killed (some people respect that).


I don't think we can compare the two situations, but I can't say so with certainty as I don't know your situation quite well enough.
The difference lies in the relation with the other person. If you are in a position in which you trust someone to help you, it'll hurt a lot more than when you are not in such a relation to start with. The latter would be the case if you're friends but occasionally have duels or such. At that point we wouldn't be speaking of your trust being damaged when you get killed while in the former situation we would be.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2013-11-18 19:26:09 UTC
Anslo wrote:


You seem to be better at missing points as well.


Okay, let's go there.

Losing a loved one is pain.

Losing pixels is not.

Getting rejected by every job interview cuz you suck at face-to-face socialising is pain.

Getting stabbed in the back by cyber 'friends' you've never met in real life and haven't known more than a few days is not.

Am I making this clear yet? Air-conditioned first-world comfort problems =/= real problems. If you're in pain over losing a few pixels, then I suggest you have problems of your own to sort out before you start diagnosing everyone else's.

But I typed out my point in black and white. This whole thing was sparked by an OPINION of mental illness, which I addressed, but you seem to be ignoring in lieu of attacking someone with an opinion that you just don't like. Well, let me know when you're physically unable to sleep for 24-72 hours due to chronic anxiety attacks, then we'll talk about real pain.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Anslo
Scope Works
#93 - 2013-11-18 19:29:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Anslo wrote:


You seem to be better at missing points as well.


Okay, let's go there.

Losing a loved one is pain.

Losing pixels is not.

Getting rejected by every job interview cuz you suck at face-to-face socialising is pain.

Getting stabbed in the back by cyber 'friends' you've never met in real life and haven't known more than a few days is not.

Am I making this clear yet? Air-conditioned first-world comfort problems =/= real problems. If you're in pain over losing a few pixels, then I suggest you have problems of your own to sort out before you start diagnosing everyone else's.

But I typed out my point in black and white. This whole thing was sparked by an OPINION of mental illness, which I addressed, but you seem to be ignoring in lieu of attacking someone with an opinion that you just don't like. Well, let me know when you're physically unable to sleep for 24-72 hours due to chronic anxiety attacks, then we'll talk about real pain.

So you've confirmed you're one of those kinds of people who decree their opinion of everything is fact, and that everyone else's take on it is only opinion.

Thank you for clarifying. We can all now safely ignore you in this conversation, as you are no longer a credible contributor.

I also like the part where you say that people shouldn't say someone has a mentall illness, and then proceed to say people who might not like being backstabbed in a game they play for fun, with other people, are mentally ill.

Irony.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Leonardo Diom
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#94 - 2013-11-18 19:30:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Leonardo Diom
Remiel Pollard wrote:

Getting stabbed in the back by cyber 'friends' you've never met in real life and haven't known more than a few days is not.


I think the main discussion has revolved around this. Forget the loss of pixels as there was none.
This is more about EVE friendship.
Rekkr Nordgard
Steelforge Heavy Industries
#95 - 2013-11-18 19:39:14 UTC
So the self-proclaimed sociopath doesn't feel that internet friendships have any value and those who think they do are dumb. I, for one, am shocked.
Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#96 - 2013-11-18 19:45:18 UTC
Leonardo Diom wrote:
Jythier Smith wrote:



I'd be more put off by someone refusing to talk to me after a brilliant game move than someone who pulled it off and kept being friends with me. IE, the relationship isn't shattered by what happened in a game. If they're my actual friend, they'll still be my friend after a move in a game that hurts my position and helps theirs - that's the POINT of gaming.

But if they stopped talking to me afterwards, then I would be upset, because the relationship is over - either it never existed to start with, or they are taking the game way too seriously.

IE, I convoed the guy who killed me last time (forgot to say gf though, but it was an amicable chat) just to find out what I did wrong and what I could do better, and if my fit was crap or not. Why? Because he's playing a game too and I need to learn from EVERYBODY I can, and make friends everywhere I can, even if it's by fighting and getting killed (some people respect that).


I don't think we can compare the two situations, but I can't say so with certainty as I don't know your situation quite well enough.
The difference lies in the relation with the other person. If you are in a position in which you trust someone to help you, it'll hurt a lot more than when you are not in such a relation to start with. The latter would be the case if you're friends but occasionally have duels or such. At that point we wouldn't be speaking of your trust being damaged when you get killed while in the former situation we would be.


I am able to take a very mechanical approach to gaming. Gaming is a chance for me to be completely self-centered with no real-world consequences for it. The point of a game is for me to have an outlet to be completely selfish within. IE, the idea of a game is to win, so whatever goal I set for myself, it is my task to get to that goal utilizing all available methods.

This works a lot better for board games where the idea is to accumulate some sort of victory points in order to win the game (my favorite is money). I transferred some of this over to this game - my goal is not outright collection of ISK, but to set up profitable industry and mining opportunities involving other players as primaries. In order to achieve that goal I need trust from other players, or at least relationships with them, so I build those relationships and do my best to make sure they're well maintained. If, within playing the game, I also make some friends, so much the better. And maybe I do have other more secret goals that involve impacting people in real life, but that is how I live life, not play EVE.

So I play EVE selfishly and I give no credence to whether you succeed in your goals or not - in business, it's obviously relevant as far as a non-profitable partner becomes no partner soon enough. But my purpose isn't for you to succeed as such, it only is my purpose so far as it suits my own purposes.

I expect the same from other players as I respect them enough to expect them to maximize their own goal-reaching potential. The problems only come up when I do not realize what the other's goal is - then it is very difficult to predict what they would do.

At least in board games, everyone has the same goal (most of the time). So I know what actions to expect from people. EVE is a lot closer to life in that way.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2013-11-18 19:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Anslo wrote:
So you've confirmed you're one of those kinds of people who decree their opinion of everything is fact, and that everyone else's take on it is only opinion.


Nope. You're putting words in my mouth. Never said or implied this at all. Even if this was the case, I see you are selective about whose opinion you'll attack.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Anslo
Scope Works
#98 - 2013-11-18 19:50:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Anslo wrote:
So you've confirmed you're one of those kinds of people who decree their opinion of everything is fact, and that everyone else's take on it is only opinion.


Nope. You're putting words in my mouth. Never said or implied this at all. Even if this was the case, I see you are selective about whose opinion you'll attack.


I'm selective because you're a hypocrite and pontificate. See

Remiel Pollard wrote:

Okay, let's go there.

Losing a loved one is pain.

Losing pixels is not.

Getting rejected by every job interview cuz you suck at face-to-face socialising is pain.

Getting stabbed in the back by cyber 'friends' you've never met in real life and haven't known more than a few days is not.

Am I making this clear yet? Air-conditioned first-world comfort problems =/= real problems. If you're in pain over losing a few pixels, then I suggest you have problems of your own to sort out before you start diagnosing everyone else's.


You can stop posting now :)

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2013-11-18 19:52:18 UTC
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:
...self-proclaimed sociopath...


Not self proclaimed. Would you like to see the diagnostic assessment? Not sure you'll be able to keep up with all the big words, but I can dropbox it quite easily.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2013-11-18 19:53:03 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Anslo wrote:
So you've confirmed you're one of those kinds of people who decree their opinion of everything is fact, and that everyone else's take on it is only opinion.


Nope. You're putting words in my mouth. Never said or implied this at all. Even if this was the case, I see you are selective about whose opinion you'll attack.


I'm selective because you're a hypocrite and pontificate. See

Remiel Pollard wrote:

Okay, let's go there.

Losing a loved one is pain.

Losing pixels is not.

Getting rejected by every job interview cuz you suck at face-to-face socialising is pain.

Getting stabbed in the back by cyber 'friends' you've never met in real life and haven't known more than a few days is not.

Am I making this clear yet? Air-conditioned first-world comfort problems =/= real problems. If you're in pain over losing a few pixels, then I suggest you have problems of your own to sort out before you start diagnosing everyone else's.


You can stop posting now :)



No, you're still putting words in my mouth. Where did I state my opinion is fact?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104