These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Militia Marines

Author
Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#1 - 2013-11-16 07:13:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Isis Dea
When capsuleers consider elite ground pounders they tend to think of ground-based immortals such as DUST mercenaries. Yet today as I came across multiple Federation bunker complexes with the Caldari-Gallente war zone and dispatched Caldari militia strike forces (as provided to us within the war effort) to lay siege, I took a moment to actually monitor the progress through gun and shoulder cameras alike. What I saw, seemed to affect me far more than it should.

In the course of thirty minutes, I saw Caldari volunteers cut through barricade after barricade of entrenched Federation defenders. I saw veteran squad leaders, men and women who knew these halls, the shortcuts, the methods of the enemy because they'd served other capsuleers days or weeks prior, escaped captivity where sieges were unsuccessful, or were aboard capsuleer ships that were destroyed in the orbital warfare above the complex and made it to escape pods to return to duty later.

Iron resolve and nerves of steel even where militia funding could barely afford to fund their body armor and weapons.

I could see the same aging within the faces of the Federation defenders. The look on squad leaders as they would calm the greener survivors and hold them to laying down their arms the moment Caldari forces breached the command deck. As if they knew the promise of being able to fight again meant captivity and the eventual turn-over at the hands of deals negotiated by the higher powers.

Faith in those higher powers that they would not be forgotten… for just as easily swift execution could await each and every one of them.

Anything for a chance to fight again…



Why does this hurt? I understand why wars exist. I'm that edgy attention whore here who revels within that fact.

Is it because we bicker over the uniformity of this conflict? How capsuleers fit warp-core-stabs or how nothing ever seems to come from the great strides each of our factions makes over the different sides of this conflict? How we consider this conflict a joke and the capsuleers involved as unimportant as the struggle itself?

And then I wonder how unimportant the crews of those ships dedicated to guarding these complexes are considered... let alone these volunteer strike teams we deploy as means to capture the complexes.

Do they get ribbons? Do they even get recognized? Do we ever remember them? Do they ever even matter?

And to think those who survive try to come back. Even in spite of so much death, they keep going. Regardless of all of these things, they still dare to volunteer...



Kirjuune, as victory (however short lived) draws nearer, even if you never fire a shot toward the enemy, reveling within the loyalty granted for your actions… do not forget the real heroes of this conflict, who will likely die long before they're ever recognized for it.

Before you capture that next complex, do the men and women on board the honor of remembering them... for that is possibly the last time you'll ever see them.




- I. Dea, Ensign

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...

Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#2 - 2013-11-16 08:34:09 UTC
(EDIT: Fixed a number of small errors within the post.)

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#3 - 2013-11-16 08:34:15 UTC
Most of my crew, technicians, administrators and marines come directly from Kaalakiota herself, but that doesn't mean I leave them on the standard benefits and remuneration package. For a start I put my people on the Isk standard when it became clear how much damage Heth had done to Kaalakiota's finances.

The terms for payout on death in service or cashing out due to an inability to continue serving is also far more generous and I also stepped up the health, education and living quarters assignments a few grades. All of these things are trivial gestures on a Capsuleers salary, but a crewmember who knows his wife and children are guaranteed housing, medical care, living expenses and education is a crewmember who can devote himself to his duty - mind cleared.

For the most part, the system has functioned without breaking down - the closest it came was the aftermath of the third battle of Caldari Prime when I lost 700 kirjuunen in 7 days. This was a harrowing period for my crew and myself both.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-11-16 08:54:21 UTC
We have a war going on here. War.

Unfortunately, many capsuleers simply can't understand what is going on outside their capsules. What is going on inside their ships, inside bunkers and military complexes. Sometimes even on the planets and around beacons, we have to bombard from the orbit.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-11-16 09:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Diana Kim
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
For a start I put my people on the Isk standard when it became clear how much damage Heth had done to Kaalakiota's finances.

If you were part of my crew, I would demonstratively execute you in front of my crew for treason and showing such disrespect to the greatest Caldari Hero. And as a celebration to my promotion.

- D. Kim, Strike Cmdr.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#6 - 2013-11-16 09:09:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
For a start I put my people on the Isk standard when it became clear how much damage Heth had done to Kaalakiota's finances.

If you were part of my crew, I would demonstratively execute you in front of my crew for treason and showing such disrespect to the greatest Caldari Hero. And as a celebration to my promotion.

- D. Kim, Strike Cmdr.


With all due respect, Strike Commander, I think we should both be grateful that my feet found a different path than joining one of your crews. I beat the last man who shot me to death with his own gun and he was a lot bigger than you are.

- P. Tuulinen, Strike Commander

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#7 - 2013-11-16 09:20:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Isis Dea
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Most of my crew, technicians, administrators and marines come directly from Kaalakiota herself, but that doesn't mean I leave them on the standard benefits and remuneration package. For a start I put my people on the Isk standard when it became clear how much damage Heth had done to Kaalakiota's finances.

The terms for payout on death in service or cashing out due to an inability to continue serving is also far more generous and I also stepped up the health, education and living quarters assignments a few grades. All of these things are trivial gestures on a Capsuleers salary, but a crewmember who knows his wife and children are guaranteed housing, medical care, living expenses and education is a crewmember who can devote himself to his duty - mind cleared.

For the most part, the system has functioned without breaking down - the closest it came was the aftermath of the third battle of Caldari Prime when I lost 700 kirjuunen in 7 days. This was a harrowing period for my crew and myself both.


Your crew don't board those complexes, Commander Tuulinen-haan. As this is a conflict orchestrated by the State, I find it would not be you who supplies the troops within those strike teams. Given the price of a single unit of Caldari Light Marines these days, I don't blame you.

Naturally, one would assume these volunteers are compensated by the State and the families awarded with benefits.

Yet… how much does the State actually invest in the immortals of the State Protectorate? How much does the corporate elite actually invest in this overall conflict?

Hell, the Mordus Legion tends to care more than the State does.

The real picture, should this exist for every militia or just ours, is far more grim:

A measly reward of Isk as appropriate to a fraction of the loyalty points rewarded as per the premium of all deaths sustained in the effort of a single complex is much more likely the only thing provided to each of these volunteers, families included (even in the inevitable event of death). Or perhaps even less given the scale of the entire operation and the crew needed to man the ships guarding the complexes. That would be most efficient.

They don't call it a militia for no reason.



- I. Dea, Ensign

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2013-11-16 09:30:13 UTC
Well, you're right that we don't tend to tie in with the strike teams you mention, but I am responsible for the care and feeding of 4800 marines, which form the bulk of Pyre's FLEETMARDET.

And yes, they aren't cheap.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#9 - 2013-11-16 09:35:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Isis Dea
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Well, you're right that we don't tend to tie in with the strike teams you mention, but I am responsible for the care and feeding of 4800 marines, which form the bulk of Pyre's FLEETMARDET.

And yes, they aren't cheap.


And that's supposed to provide closure for the millions of volunteers serving the war effort, how?




More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...

Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#10 - 2013-11-16 13:20:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Desiderya
But why don't you think about the children!?

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#11 - 2013-11-17 00:12:18 UTC
Isis Dea wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Well, you're right that we don't tend to tie in with the strike teams you mention, but I am responsible for the care and feeding of 4800 marines, which form the bulk of Pyre's FLEETMARDET.

And yes, they aren't cheap.


And that's supposed to provide closure for the millions of volunteers serving the war effort, how?


Because volunteers choose where they volunteer. Why not volunteer somewhere with decent pay and benefits? And you employers - why not recognise the work your volunteers do in ways they'll appreciate?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#12 - 2013-11-17 00:34:38 UTC
I think worth bringing up as a point to this post is that people join the military knowing the dangers. One of the things to keep in mind is that if you think they aren't being appreciated enough as soldiers, imagine what they must have come from to put their lives on the line.

The truth is, being a foot soldier or a crewmember in any military force is exceptionally dangerous, but also far more lucrative than the jobs they came from. The sad state of affairs is that our enlisted personnel are almost always over-represented by the poorest of our societies, men and women who truly had little other choice for a better life. That they pray to survive the five years it would take to truly sort their lives out and give them a chance at civilian success.

On the one hand, we might keep in mind that these people very often come from dire circumstances, but on the other that they have a choice in where they go and what they do. They feel the risk is worth the reward, whatever it is that they joined for. We need to respect them for their sacrifice, but also respect their choice to be there. They know where they are going and what is expected of them.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#13 - 2013-11-17 01:36:08 UTC
Isis Dea wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Well, you're right that we don't tend to tie in with the strike teams you mention, but I am responsible for the care and feeding of 4800 marines, which form the bulk of Pyre's FLEETMARDET.

And yes, they aren't cheap.


And that's supposed to provide closure for the millions of volunteers serving the war effort, how?

Normally, I avoid places like this. Too much crap slinging and pseudo politics... But finding this little article caught my attention for a few minutes. So, if you actually give a rat about the PBI, here's some input from somebody who has spent their life soldiering on the ground, long before DUST troopers came into the picture. And yes, I consider boarding actions, part and parcel to the job, to be a part of that.

You want to let the ground pounders and marines know they're appreciated? Quit pandering about it and moaning over the job they choose to do and follow Pieters example. Make sure their families are set in every way you can. Beyond a salary, that brings a peace of mind that raw pay just doesn't give. Make sure they're appreciated day to day... Meaning good food and accomodations. We're not hard to please in that regard. Make sure they get not just the best gear you can afford, which isn't hard in an ISK economy, since we're not talking dropsuits and hand held artillery here... And moreover, more importantly, make sure they get the best TRAINING you can find... The reality of the matter is that most corporate training programs are a joke, and propaganda is poor armor when a Fed marine draws a bead on you with a plasma rifle. You want to show your respect? Do what Pieter did... Take responsibility for them yourself, take care of what THEY care about, and make sure they've got the training and more to leverage their odds in their favor.

There it is, straight from the source. Take it. Ignore it. Whatever. If you want to keep being a self telling joke and do nothing more than complain like some bureaucrat, go for it. One thing that NONE of us care about is 'verba non activ'.
Marla Natryn
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-11-17 01:49:25 UTC
I find myself agreeing with the principle of ensuring those beneath you are well trained; although my family holdings are relatively modest in comparison to some, we have always ensured that our slaves are well cared for and well trained. This ensures they are competent in their assigned role, that they are satisfied with being able to carry out that role well and it also teaches them skills they can apply to their life after slavery, should they be fortunuate enough to be given their freedom.
Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#15 - 2013-11-17 10:18:22 UTC
Agiri Falken wrote:
Isis Dea wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Well, you're right that we don't tend to tie in with the strike teams you mention, but I am responsible for the care and feeding of 4800 marines, which form the bulk of Pyre's FLEETMARDET.

And yes, they aren't cheap.


And that's supposed to provide closure for the millions of volunteers serving the war effort, how?

Normally, I avoid places like this. Too much crap slinging and pseudo politics... But finding this little article caught my attention for a few minutes. So, if you actually give a rat about the PBI, here's some input from somebody who has spent their life soldiering on the ground, long before DUST troopers came into the picture. And yes, I consider boarding actions, part and parcel to the job, to be a part of that.

You want to let the ground pounders and marines know they're appreciated? Quit pandering about it and moaning over the job they choose to do and follow Pieters example. Make sure their families are set in every way you can. Beyond a salary, that brings a peace of mind that raw pay just doesn't give. Make sure they're appreciated day to day... Meaning good food and accomodations. We're not hard to please in that regard. Make sure they get not just the best gear you can afford, which isn't hard in an ISK economy, since we're not talking dropsuits and hand held artillery here... And moreover, more importantly, make sure they get the best TRAINING you can find... The reality of the matter is that most corporate training programs are a joke, and propaganda is poor armor when a Fed marine draws a bead on you with a plasma rifle. You want to show your respect? Do what Pieter did... Take responsibility for them yourself, take care of what THEY care about, and make sure they've got the training and more to leverage their odds in their favor.

There it is, straight from the source. Take it. Ignore it. Whatever. If you want to keep being a self telling joke and do nothing more than complain like some bureaucrat, go for it. One thing that NONE of us care about is 'verba non activ'.


That's the thing, even if I wanted to, I can't. The State owns these men and women, not me. My options are incredibly limited.

And you of all people know how much the military likes outsiders interfering. There might be a high chance they don't want someone telling these men and women what they truly deserve, especially coming from an immortal.

At the end of the day I'm an Ensign, a nobody, a Jaijii especially. No State official will stand to see someone like that meddling.

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...

Arkady Vachon
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#16 - 2013-11-17 12:45:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkady Vachon
hmm apparently my transmission system is down, be back in a bit...

Nothing Personal - Just Business...

Chaos Creates Content

Arkady Vachon
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#17 - 2013-11-17 13:57:46 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
I think worth bringing up as a point to this post is that people join the military knowing the dangers. One of the things to keep in mind is that if you think they aren't being appreciated enough as soldiers, imagine what they must have come from to put their lives on the line.


People enlist for all sorts of reasons, yeah. Some out of patriotism and national pride, some out of a sense of loyalty and duty to their megacorp, family military traditions, or loyalty and belief in their faith. And yeah, some to what they see as a way out of a poverty or poor economic situation. And some, to escape whatever it is they are running from.

I had my own reasons for enlisting, before I was found to be pod-compatible I did nearly twenty years in the Federal Marines. Yeah, most know what they are potentially signing up for when they enlist, same goes for volunteers. Those who thought otherwise either washed out in boot, or found out pretty damn quickly when in the field, and hopefully didn't get us killed in the bargain.

The unit becomes your family after a while, your unit and squadmates like your brothers and sisters in arms, maybe its because we depended on each other to survive. As Capsuleers we can play in the greater game, see plans unfold and maneuver forces on a larger scale, we can see the bigger picture. Most of the marines and footslogs, and ship crews, do not have that luxury, nor the advantages that things like immortality give us.

But, our goal was, generally, to get the job done, get home alive, and hope that we didn't get a load of bad intel or some ladder climbing REMF willing to throw us to the meatgrinder in order to impress the higher ups and jockey for a promotion....and sometimes, that is what exactly happened. I was an NCO towards the end, worked my way up, so I worked for a living.

I left a lot of brothers and sisters over the years in a lot of places, and maybe that is why I mostly fly industrials and haulers and delve into more industrial and scientific minded projects. Capsuleer warfare is push button death, we shoot at ships and pods, paring the rationale down to just that at times, and that is nothing new.

But, its different on the ground. Most of the men and women that I killed were at close range, sometimes in hand to hand combat when things got really hairy. With rifles, sidearms, or a laser-honed panga or monomolecular-edge combat knife...or sometimes just unarmed. It's a different thing to kill someone like that and watch the life drain out of their eyes.

But, Ms. Falken and Mr. Tuulinen have the right of it, heck Ms. Falken and I may well have hardscrabbled over the same patches of dirt and breathed the same recycled atmosphere from opposite sides at some point..

The best things you can do for the troops under your command is to give them the tools, training, weapons to get the job done. Also, the best intel you can get to give to the guys going in (and damn, I hated when the intelligence wonks screwed us over with a bad piece of info that made the mission go completely FUBAR.)


All that and two things more: A semblance of something like a home to want to return to, even if it is a heated bunkroom, showers and decent chow. And show them a reason to trust you, show them your are the kind of leader who won't just needlessly throw their lives away for no reason. A soldier will follow a leader they trust to give them a fighting chance to complete the job and get home alive.

Nothing Personal - Just Business...

Chaos Creates Content

Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#18 - 2013-11-18 02:46:28 UTC
Isis Dea wrote:
Agiri Falken wrote:
Isis Dea wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Well, you're right that we don't tend to tie in with the strike teams you mention, but I am responsible for the care and feeding of 4800 marines, which form the bulk of Pyre's FLEETMARDET.

And yes, they aren't cheap.


And that's supposed to provide closure for the millions of volunteers serving the war effort, how?

Normally, I avoid places like this. Too much crap slinging and pseudo politics... But finding this little article caught my attention for a few minutes. So, if you actually give a rat about the PBI, here's some input from somebody who has spent their life soldiering on the ground, long before DUST troopers came into the picture. And yes, I consider boarding actions, part and parcel to the job, to be a part of that.

You want to let the ground pounders and marines know they're appreciated? Quit pandering about it and moaning over the job they choose to do and follow Pieters example. Make sure their families are set in every way you can. Beyond a salary, that brings a peace of mind that raw pay just doesn't give. Make sure they're appreciated day to day... Meaning good food and accomodations. We're not hard to please in that regard. Make sure they get not just the best gear you can afford, which isn't hard in an ISK economy, since we're not talking dropsuits and hand held artillery here... And moreover, more importantly, make sure they get the best TRAINING you can find... The reality of the matter is that most corporate training programs are a joke, and propaganda is poor armor when a Fed marine draws a bead on you with a plasma rifle. You want to show your respect? Do what Pieter did... Take responsibility for them yourself, take care of what THEY care about, and make sure they've got the training and more to leverage their odds in their favor.

There it is, straight from the source. Take it. Ignore it. Whatever. If you want to keep being a self telling joke and do nothing more than complain like some bureaucrat, go for it. One thing that NONE of us care about is 'verba non activ'.


That's the thing, even if I wanted to, I can't. The State owns these men and women, not me. My options are incredibly limited.

And you of all people know how much the military likes outsiders interfering. There might be a high chance they don't want someone telling these men and women what they truly deserve, especially coming from an immortal.

At the end of the day I'm an Ensign, a nobody, a Jaijii especially. No State official will stand to see someone like that meddling.


Dea... The marines stationed aboard your ships are YOUR responsibility from the get go. Nobody else can tell you what to do aboard your own ship, or even your section of the station. It's a politically apostate zone that belongs to you, and you alone. How have you NOT figured that out? Even in the State, a capsuleer is a capsuleer, and no "official" is going to risk meddling in your affairs... Winds, you're dense. You were just told what to do.

And since we're on the subject... If you THINK you're a jaijii, and act like a jaijii, then you're a damned jaijii playing militia games. If you think you're Caldari, and ACT like Caldari, you're Caldari. And NO Caldari gets anything done by bemoaning circumstances they can change. Life lesson. Take it. Leave it. Or get the hell out of our nation already.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#19 - 2013-11-18 18:18:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Isis Dea
Saya Ishikari wrote:

Dea... The marines stationed aboard your ships are YOUR responsibility from the get go. Nobody else can tell you what to do aboard your own ship, or even your section of the station. It's a politically apostate zone that belongs to you, and you alone. How have you NOT figured that out? Even in the State, a capsuleer is a capsuleer, and no "official" is going to risk meddling in your affairs... Winds, you're dense. You were just told what to do.

And since we're on the subject... If you THINK you're a jaijii, and act like a jaijii, then you're a damned jaijii playing militia games. If you think you're Caldari, and ACT like Caldari, you're Caldari. And NO Caldari gets anything done by bemoaning circumstances they can change. Life lesson. Take it. Leave it. Or get the hell out of our nation already.


Interesting. As if these marines were entities I could select in my cargo and "Award Benefits" as easy as that. I hate to say it but part of me either thinks you don't know what you're talking about or that you are part of some chain of command that places those troops under your direct control.

I'm not talking about crew, Ishikari-haani, I never was. These are purely the forces that launch automatically the moment you drop under range of a complex within your faction's interest to secure it. We seem to be lacking these forces until we join a militia.

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...