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The Office of the Chairman: A ~chill place~ for constituent issues

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Temba Ronin
#141 - 2011-11-08 21:01:15 UTC
Stahlregen wrote:
Temba Ronin wrote:
[quote=Stahlregen]Come on dude, gates are completely different to bridges- even you should know this so you'll have to excuse me if I am unable to grasp the argument you are trying to make here. There's nothing stopping you from ganking nullsec players just as there is nothing stopping me from ganking people in empire. Again what is it about bridges that makes this impossible for you?

King of Space Mittani's stance on the reiteration of nullsec is a far cry from your proposal of further uninformed, knee-jerk nullsec nerfs that you can't even make a solid argument for- which is exactly what rallied this CSM to power in the first place.


Everywhere in EVE is dangerous. You're trying to say that the reward for months of effort and billions of isk expended to claim and hold space should be circumvented by a single ******* module on a single ******* ship just so you can avoid a couple of gate camps? It's ridiculous and flies in the face of the anti-solo gameplay that makes this game.

Hell, why shouldn't the pos you're trying to hack just blow you up the instant you uncloak? This is why it's a dumb idea, sorry it just is.

Thanks for taking the time to share your opinion with me. BTW i did ask that a CLOAKED ship would be able to hack. D-scan works while cloaked so could a hacking module.

If you think EVE is anti solo player you better check their ad campaigns it's all about how ONE player's action can impact everything else. This game seems to be about multiplying the force of ONE player's choices not grinding them into mindless automatons that "Always follow orders".

I think you should look around and look forward, EVE is evolving and nothing your type of arguments will do can stop it, delay it some i'll grant you that, but new elections bring new opportunities, as will the new front for offense and defense that Dust541 represents.

I think the "Too Safe Far Away Alliance Havens" are heading into stormy weather, but the real Null Warriors will revel in it and the wannabes will give me their fears and tears about the months of effort and billions of isk i might turn to salvage ...... your fright is exactly what i had in mind with this proposal ...... EVERYTHING can be burned down, New Eden is not a safe place and should not be a safe place for big Alliances or single pilots ...... isn't that what EVE is all about?

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!
Temba Ronin
#142 - 2011-11-08 21:06:54 UTC
Stahlregen wrote:


You're trying to say that the reward for months of effort and billions of isk expended to claim and hold space should be circumvented by a single ******* module on a single ******* ship .....

Correct me if i am wrong but isn't that exactly how the first Titan was tackled .... by a single ship with a warp scrambling module and ONE bold pilot?

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!
Sephiroth Clone VII
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#143 - 2011-11-08 21:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Sephiroth Clone VII
Temba Ronin wrote:
Stahlregen wrote:
Come on dude, gates are completely different to bridges- even you should know this so you'll have to excuse me if I am unable to grasp the argument you are trying to make here. There's nothing stopping you from ganking nullsec players just as there is nothing stopping me from ganking people in empire. Again what is it about bridges that makes this impossible for you?

King of Space Mittani's stance on the reiteration of nullsec is a far cry from your proposal of further uninformed, knee-jerk nullsec nerfs that you can't even make a solid argument for- which is exactly what rallied this CSM to power in the first place.

Perhaps this is indeed a case of my ignorance shining brightly but i was under the impression that without a password or being in the corp/ alliance that placed the JB you could not use it. I would like to be able to hack past that to further my criminal enterprises and gank players in their haulers, shuttles, and pods in their Null space home systems .... because ANYWHERE you undock in EVE should be dangerous ....... this is a bad idea? Pirate


Do you understand that jump bridges are in deathstar pos's

1. its a module by the POS owner, so why should you get to use it?
2. Its got a ton of guns, stand near enough for 5-10 seconds you dead
3. being close enough to hack it (can't use modules while cloaked), or use it would decloak you, going to point 2, the guns.

Why would being able to use bridge between two systems help you that much, assuming all of the above does not stop you in first place, you go from two very predictable points that likely have eyes in. You save time going that direction but that's about it. To go to nullsec of a particular alliance you would first need to travel though many other regions, some empire, some low, and maybe other nullsec you don't get their bridges for a while.

Furthermore, going a predictable path of a bridge they would know where you were going could camp you down with one hictor, how will escaping work out with a big warp disrupt bubble around you and a zillion pos guns locking as you either trying to use one, to appearing on the other side (oh and BTW unlike going though a gate, jumping does not cloak you, bridge or capital)

This is among the dumbest ideas ever. The only way this could become stupider is if you tried and succeed to hack a cyno gen on a pos so you could warp in a capital in hostile space, on top of a tower. A billion isk carrier dies to a POS, attempting to inflict 'massive losses' to a nullsec alliance.

Nullsec is plenty dangerous with people who know their things and do roam it, they are already doing it. Do you want to have a class on how to do a roam? Need some professionals to hold your hand?
Temba Ronin
#144 - 2011-11-08 21:17:05 UTC
Sephiroth CloneIIV wrote:
Temba Ronin wrote:
Stahlregen wrote:
Come on dude, gates are completely different to bridges- even you should know this so you'll have to excuse me if I am unable to grasp the argument you are trying to make here. There's nothing stopping you from ganking nullsec players just as there is nothing stopping me from ganking people in empire. Again what is it about bridges that makes this impossible for you?

King of Space Mittani's stance on the reiteration of nullsec is a far cry from your proposal of further uninformed, knee-jerk nullsec nerfs that you can't even make a solid argument for- which is exactly what rallied this CSM to power in the first place.

Perhaps this is indeed a case of my ignorance shining brightly but i was under the impression that without a password or being in the corp/ alliance that placed the JB you could not use it. I would like to be able to hack past that to further my criminal enterprises and gank players in their haulers, shuttles, and pods in their Null space home systems .... because ANYWHERE you undock in EVE should be dangerous ....... this is a bad idea? Pirate


Do you understand that jump bridges are in deathstar pos's

1. its a module by the POS owner, so why should you get to use it?
2. Its got a ton of guns, stand near enough for 5-10 seconds you dead
3. being close enough to hack it (can't use modules while cloaked), or use it would decloak you, going to point 2, the guns.

Why would being able to use bridge between two systems help you that much, assuming all of the above does not stop you in first place, you go from two very predictable points that likely have eyes in. You save time going that direction but that's about it. To go to nullsec of a particular alliance you would first need to travel though many other regions, some empire, some low, and maybe other nullsec you don't get their bridges for a while.

Furthermore, going a predictable path of a bridge they would know where you were going could camp you down with one hictor, how will escaping work out with a big warp disrupt bubble around you and a zillion pos guns locking as you either plan on using a bridge or use one.

Nullsec is plenty dangerous with people who know their things and do roam it, they are already doing it. Do you want to have a class on how to do a roam? Need some professionals to hold your hand?

^^^^^^ If you could do that while in your shuttle or perhaps in your pod all the better please!

Do not discount strategy and tactics ...... i'm a patient sort of guy ..... after being in your system for a long time your many eyes will wander and lose focus ..... then i get to make my next move.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2011-11-08 21:28:16 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:
Mr. Chairman I think many players like myself would like the opportunity to infiltrate Null Sec as saboteurs, agents of chaos, and just plain irritants to the big Alliances that have frozen us out. Would you support a hacking module buff that could be implemented by a cloaked ship that would allow it to use ANY jump bridge?

Some of the imbalance high sec suffers from is that a lot of the gankers get to flee home to “Too Safe Walled Garden Alliances Far Away In Null Space” if we could visit some of that gank PVP in their home systems I think everyone would be happier.

Mr. Chairman will you support some changes to the hacking modules that will allow a cloaked small gang or large fleet to infiltrate Null space jump bridge networks? Maybe we will find some tears other then our own when the shoe is on the other foot.

It could give us the chance to meet ship to ship in your local space at a time of my choosing which would be worth not getting out of your system with ship or pod. Are you up for a little non-consensual PVP on your turf? Pirate

Do me a favour, tell me why a JB should be hackable so it's usable by someone without the proper standings? What sort of benefits should this give them that isn't already there through wormholes and normal gates? What sort of drawbacks should they have to live with while they do it?

All I've seen from your idea so far has been something about nullsec alliances freezing you out, hisec suffering gankers fleeing to nullsec and you being unable to follow them there. This makes no sense to me, it's not like you're prohibited from going out into our space and touching somebody.

As of yet, I haven't seen anything that really screams "This would be awesome and enable me to do things I can't do otherwise. Let's do this." In short, this is your idea, sell it to us.

Temba Ronin wrote:
Correct me if i am wrong but isn't that exactly how the first Titan was tackled .... by a single ship with a warp scrambling module and ONE bold pilot?

Last I checked, the titan was decloaked because one guy saw where the titan cloaked and burned towards him. The actual tackling wasn't done by a warp scrambling module, since iirc the titans and motherships were immune to that module. You needed, then just as now, a hic or a dic for that.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Sephiroth Clone VII
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#146 - 2011-11-08 21:39:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sephiroth Clone VII
Temba Ronin wrote:
Sephiroth CloneIIV wrote:
Temba Ronin wrote:
Stahlregen wrote:
Come on dude, gates are completely different to bridges- even you should know this so you'll have to excuse me if I am unable to grasp the argument you are trying to make here. There's nothing stopping you from ganking nullsec players just as there is nothing stopping me from ganking people in empire. Again what is it about bridges that makes this impossible for you?

King of Space Mittani's stance on the reiteration of nullsec is a far cry from your proposal of further uninformed, knee-jerk nullsec nerfs that you can't even make a solid argument for- which is exactly what rallied this CSM to power in the first place.

Perhaps this is indeed a case of my ignorance shining brightly but i was under the impression that without a password or being in the corp/ alliance that placed the JB you could not use it. I would like to be able to hack past that to further my criminal enterprises and gank players in their haulers, shuttles, and pods in their Null space home systems .... because ANYWHERE you undock in EVE should be dangerous ....... this is a bad idea? Pirate


Do you understand that jump bridges are in deathstar pos's

1. its a module by the POS owner, so why should you get to use it?
2. Its got a ton of guns, stand near enough for 5-10 seconds you dead
3. being close enough to hack it (can't use modules while cloaked), or use it would decloak you, going to point 2, the guns.

Why would being able to use bridge between two systems help you that much, assuming all of the above does not stop you in first place, you go from two very predictable points that likely have eyes in. You save time going that direction but that's about it. To go to nullsec of a particular alliance you would first need to travel though many other regions, some empire, some low, and maybe other nullsec you don't get their bridges for a while.

Furthermore, going a predictable path of a bridge they would know where you were going could camp you down with one hictor, how will escaping work out with a big warp disrupt bubble around you and a zillion pos guns locking as you either plan on using a bridge or use one.

Nullsec is plenty dangerous with people who know their things and do roam it, they are already doing it. Do you want to have a class on how to do a roam? Need some professionals to hold your hand?

^^^^^^ If you could do that while in your shuttle or perhaps in your pod all the better please!

Do not discount strategy and tactics ...... i'm a patient sort of guy ..... after being in your system for a long time your many eyes will wander and lose focus ..... then i get to make my next move.


Or I could travel as I do currently in gates with a insured hurricane fit for pvp with autocannons or covert ops ship, or anything with cloaks, and utilize a scout.

Do you plan on attacking people as a one man army in your NPC corp, or will others in it join with you? If your very patient are you going to wait for the never for CCP to let in cloaked hacking, or are you going to do it now as others do? The goons, hint hint bad people who hurt gallente ice minors live in the region dekline and the hub is VFK. You can use adjacent NPC gurista or other space as a nearby bases for attacks. You go now, go stop bad people and save ice minors, save eve online, blow up deathstar and you win 'the game'.
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#147 - 2011-11-08 21:41:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rer Eirikr
Yes let's circumvent all JB defenses with a module you can use while cloaked...

If you really wanna **** with Null so bad become a spy and Awox ****. You've said it yourself, you're a HighSec pilot, come out and live here for awhile, learn the ropes. I appreciate the enthusiasm for blowing **** up but this idea is bad for a multitude of reasons, primarily for me being you're taking an act of player created content (espionage) and making it into a module :/

Come and live out here for a few weeks, you'll see how easy it is to gank stuff, won't even need this idea.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#148 - 2011-11-08 22:32:55 UTC
Props to Temba. At first I thought he was just a ******, but his success at derailing this thread has proven him to be a master troll.

I expected better of the rest of you, tho.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#149 - 2011-11-08 23:55:06 UTC
Just ignore the people you disagree with. This is a thread for me to discuss issues with actual constituents, not to have a slapfight with lunatics who have never used a jump bridge in their life.

~hi~
Temba Ronin
#150 - 2011-11-09 00:09:42 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Just ignore the people you disagree with. This is a thread for me to discuss issues with actual constituents, not to have a slapfight with lunatics who have never used a jump bridge in their life.

Forum Tears from the Chairman & lead fearless Goon.... thank you so much ...... and i never had to fire a shot! Proof positive the pen is mightier then the horde. Thank you so much! Pirate

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!
Stahlregen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#151 - 2011-11-09 00:09:46 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Just ignore the people you disagree with. This is a thread for me to discuss issues with actual constituents, not to have a slapfight with lunatics who have never used a jump bridge in their life.


Sorry dude, that was my fault for getting trolled.

EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A VHS INTO THE SLOT. IT'S CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE MOVES ALONGSIDE THE MAIN CHARACTER, RIDDICK. I DO EVERY MOVE AND I DO EVERY MOVE HARD. MAKIN' WHOOSHING SOUNDS WHEN I SLAM DOWN SOME NECRO BASTARDS. NOT MANY CAN SAY THEY ESCAPED THE GALAXY'S MOST DANGEROUS PRISON. I CAN.
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#152 - 2011-11-09 05:36:39 UTC
Arkanon Nerevar wrote:
I have a few questions mostly directed towards your position as the null-sec representative, there fairly interlinked questions so feel free to structure the answers as you see fit.

Q:do you think the coming supercapital changes are going to shift null battles away from super cap pilots being the most desired by the alliances


I don't think that the changes go far enough to prevent Titan guns from annihilating subcaps; they're a step in the right direction, but I'd like to see either an additional nerf to Titan tracking, or a boost to hictor capacitor.

Quote:
Q:sub cap fleets today have mostly moved to just BCs (whelpcanes, drake) do you think null batttles will now shift back to the tactical BS fights of yore, which we quite frankly call "the good old days"


I disagree. Most serious main-fleet doctrines in 60% of null are Pulse Abaddons. The other 30% are Alphafleets, with 10% random disorganized trash.

Battlecruiser fleets are just playtime, or specific suicide counters to supercaps.

Quote:

Q:do you think the coming gallente changes are enough to make their ships viable across the board for null-sec life/battles


I'm not sure, I'm not an expert theorycrafter when it comes to fleet doctrines. I think you'd be more likely to see Rail Rokhs over Megas, because a Rail Mega is still inferior to a Pulse Abaddon in every way, but a Rail Rokh might beat out a Alpha Mael postpatch.


Quote:
Q:some players (myself) have a strong inclination to want to fly just one factions ships, generally because of a combination of looks/mechanics/feel, do you think this kind of thought is applicable/viable in null-sec in general


It's an artificially-imposed restriction on your options as pilot and thus by definition suboptimal. Just like 'honor'.

~hi~
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#153 - 2011-11-09 05:43:45 UTC
Quebber wrote:
You have been quite vocal when it comes to the RMT and Botting that it is up to CCP to police there own game how exactly does that reconcile in your own and the CSM's role of "policing" ccp, bringing players together to fight any changes in eve that are seen as wrong or impact the game as a whole.

How can you justify sitting on the fence and saying it is not ours or a players problem, I agree ccp needs to put more effort into dealing with these problems but as my local police man told me "we can not be everywhere, we need your help and comunity support to deal with these issues" If we do not take a stand if leaders do not help set a standard nothing that ccp does will solve this.

This may be their world but it is our home. I have actually left alliances and lost "friends" because I did what I believe was right in standing up to RMT and botters.


It's impossible for me to tell who's a dedicated ratter and who's a 'bot', and it's not my job. I'm not paid by CCP to play GM. If you find a bot, click 'report bot' and the Security Team - who actually has access to logs and evidence - can sort things out. Alliance leaders have no evidence, just hearsay and endless finger-pointing.

Witch hunts accomplish nothing save feed the egos of the ignorant and self-righteous (that's you).

~hi~
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#154 - 2011-11-09 05:47:54 UTC
Venus Vermillion wrote:
Oh great and powerful King of Space,

I have but a few small questions for you that I hope you will bless with answers.

1 - How does it feel to be so incredibly ~spacefamous~ that your name causes people to go on spy hunts? (The Mittani sends his regards.)

2 - You miss Prencleeve, right? I mean seriously.

3 - As your sponsoree, have I done you proud?

4 - Is it true that I'm actually your alt? Riverini seems to indicate that I am and I can't disprove it.


1. It's a little weird sometimes.

2. Not really!

3. Yes. But you should stop referring to yourself as a sponsoree, as it marks you as one of the unwashed masses.

4. I am the alts of many people! Apparently I talk to myself with sock puppets on the forums all day. Some guy in a NPC corp told me so.

~hi~
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#155 - 2011-11-09 05:50:24 UTC
Solo Player wrote:
Last one, I promise:

The Mittani wrote:
sov war is based on staging systems, alliance contracts, and forward deployments. One moves into a staging area and sets up shop for ops; one doesn't bounce between the front and your homeland. Fleet combat alts stay at the front, isk-making alts remain home or in hisec. Ignorant cries of 'but but, homeland defense' are met with a smirk and a remark about jump clones.


This makes sense to me, even if it does not quite cover the (un-?)importance of supply lines in such a conflict. But then, I'm not an armchair general but an armchair armchair general, and I look at such things from a purely academic perspective as opposed to your practical one.

Still, from what I understand, jump clones are the key to projecting power as a null point null entity. Do you think it is to the broader game's best interest that they can do that so effectively no matter the distance, or would you prefer alliances to suffer drawbacks the further they deploy from home? If it is the latter, would you like CCP to have a close look at jump clones, big wrench in hand?


You're really asking questions from a position of complete ignorance. Jump clones can be substituted for simple podjumping to offices, etc. Short version is: don't worry or ask ~deep searing questions~ about an aspect of gameplay that - as a solo player - you don't seem to have any knowledge of.

Jump clone are not a key to projecting power in nullsec. Having a fleet that obeys a tight doctrine is. vOv

~hi~
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#156 - 2011-11-09 05:56:18 UTC
MissyFire wrote:
First and foremost; Great job on bringing more than an ounce of relevance to the CSM. And the quick stir to the politics of EVE.

My Question;

As a professional running a law practice myself and not having the time to really dedicate to EVE. I am now relegated to casual play time in high-sec. Do you feel EVE can remain committed to FiS for even the casual player or do you advocate more to the hard core player base.

Putting yourself in the casual/time limited players shoes, What do you think could be done better to attract and retain this kind of player?



Most of being a casual player in EVE involves thinking through setup, and/or being a mindless solo missionrunning drone.

For example, I hate the fact that most nullsec ops take a long time before a payoff, so lately I've been doing one of three things: gatecamping in a predetermined location, ganking pods and small ships in Jita, or blowing up barges in Gallente space.

To avoid the pain in the ass factor, I've got each team of characters set up with everything they need so I can simply log in and immediately play (or gank, as the case may be) without any fooling around.

I don't think there's a distinction between 'casual' and 'hardcore' in terms of sandbox content in EVE unlike WoW where there are very distinct divisions in content. Something that is in the sandbox can be used casually or in a 'hardcore' way. It depends on how you put the tools to use.

~hi~
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#157 - 2011-11-09 06:05:17 UTC
Khadmos wrote:
*snip: hella words*
Am I just crazy, or would eve be far more interesting if null sec was actually a place where people lived, buying, selling, mining and manufacturing things?

Countless small things would need to be adjusted as well. For example, the access rights on mobile labs are currently useless. One outpost per system may not be enough, or outposts will need more research/manufacturing slots. Agents in player owned stations would be nice, better yet, allow sov owners to pay for missions or rat bounties (or add their own isk to rat bounties) in their systems and have the number of missions completed and rats killed give a benefit to the sov holders (tougher sov structures, cheaper maintenance costs, whatever).

Is CCP looking at doing anything like this to shake things up or are they quite happy with the current state of the game and sov warfare?


The idea of making nullsec more independent from Jita, and a place for civilizations to grow rather than merely flags on the map fueled by endless jump freighters from Empire is something we discussed at great length in May, as is in the May Summit minutes. This also ties into the CSM6 'Farms and Fields' discussions.

So basically it's something the CSM has been pushing for since our term began. Obviously I can't say what CCP is looking at or not, besides what's been made available in blogs and the minutes. NDA, etc.

~hi~
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#158 - 2011-11-09 06:18:27 UTC
Steph Wing wrote:
Dear mittens,

Which do you think had a greater impact on CCP's recent face-heel-turn: the CSM's media zergrush, or the drop in subscriptions?

If the latter, what effects do you think this use of such a "blunt instrument" will have on EVE's future?


I assume it was a combination of factors. I doubt the CSM's media push for sanity would have been listened to if CCP's revenues were soaring, but if there had been no media push I fear CCP might have assumed that more NeX dollies were the answer to declining subscriptions.

We can only hope that going forward CCP remembers that this is a spaceship game, and that their customers are kept happy by new spaceship content - as is evidenced by the outpouring of relief and announcements of resubbing from even the most bitter of bittervets upon the revelation of the Winter Expansion's features.

~hi~
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#159 - 2011-11-09 09:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciar Meara
Stahlregen wrote:

Everywhere in EVE is dangerous. You're trying to say that the reward for months of effort and billions of isk expended to claim and hold space should be circumvented by a single ******* module on a single ******* ship just so you can avoid a couple of gate camps? It's ridiculous and flies in the face of the anti-solo gameplay that makes this game.

Hell, why shouldn't the pos you're trying to hack just blow you up the instant you uncloak? This is why it's a dumb idea, sorry it just is.


So people using jumpbridges and POS's because they "metagamed" the password and thus took advantage of all that hard work somebody else build up are just plain unfair? Shouldn't you go cry in a corner somewhere in stead of playing eve?

I was under the impression people could allready do all this, providing they "steal" the pasword by metagaming. Although now paswords will be eliminated.

edit: In order to stay on topic:

Mittani, what do you think about all the stuff that is coming out of CCP regarding eve these last few weeks. I find it amazing that a high number of features and ideas get implemented in record time while some of these things have been asked for years. Have they been stocking up on ideas and only now gotten enough people to actually implement them or is this all a big coïncidence a perfect "white swan event", with carbon being finished for the UI etc, etc.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#160 - 2011-11-09 09:56:25 UTC
Ciar Meara wrote:

So people using jumpbridges and POS's because they "metagamed" the password and thus took advantage of all that hard work somebody else build up are just plain unfair? Shouldn't you go cry in a corner somewhere in stead of playing eve?

I was under the impression people could allready do all this, providing they "steal" the pasword by metagaming. Although now paswords will be eliminated.

You have to be blue to the alliance that controls the JB before you can use it, password or no.

And getting the password to the pos shields so you can get in and bump/kill/steal ships in it(or even funnier, hide from the owners in it) IS fair, because you are taking care of an intel screw up on the part of the owning entity.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.