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The Office of the Chairman: A ~chill place~ for constituent issues

First post
Author
Zordon
Replacements R Us
Goonswarm Federation
#561 - 2012-02-08 21:48:36 UTC
Sir Mitten's

About the nullsec miner, for us that 'wish' to support large construction methods, would you toss around the idea of Random-roids in the grav site?

To explain this, the small grav site has a ginormous Spodumain rock that the site is anchored around... It's roughly 4 mil m3 in size or 250,000 units. Even if this rock would shift as the site respawns with different ores, totaling in the same (average) value based on the market. (IE with 16 base types of ore, shift based off how common in new-eden they are)

This would have a minimal effect on the actual isk value of the site, but lead to self-sustainability for 0.0 alliances with a strong industrial side. And also lead to a change in need for the mineral compression from high-sec. The compressions would still be needed because building a titan still needs loads of minerals and I know nobody that would mine that in an efficient manner.

I know this is a fail post, and definatly troll worthy, but I hope it comes across as understandable and you could possibly lay out an answer.

Zordon
Monkey 4 Life
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#562 - 2012-02-09 07:55:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Imryn Xaran
Taedrin wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:


And still no answer.

Question: How do you justify your contradictory position on reporting bots? You encourage the general EVE playerbase to use the report a bot feature, but kick your own corp members if they report one of their own. Please explain, or can we just assume that goonies are special little snowflakes who are allowed to ignore the rules?

Edit: No it hasn't been discussed in this thread previously, so please answer the question.


How the hell can mittens tell if one of his members reported another member for botting or not? I'm just a pubbie, but I *HIGHLY* doubt that mittens has some sort of anti-bot-reporting counter intelligence system set up to weed out members who report bots to CCP. That's just plain silly. The fact of the matter is that if a goon wanted to report another goon for botting, there is nothing that mittens can do to stop it.

Now, I wouldn't actually put it past mittens to have actually be opposed to goons reporting other goons. But I wouldn't put it past him to be the other way around either. We are just a couple of pubbies and the only thing we can see out here is a bunch of hot gas being spouted between two sides of an argument.

If you think that he is a bot loving RMTer, then don't vote for him - simple as that. If you hate that he is a self-admitted sadistic bastard, then don't vote for him.

As for me, I may yet vote for him - I begrudgingly admit that the CSM has been surprisingly competent and effective under his leadership. I highly doubt that he has some sort of hidden tin-foil-hattery agenda to revive some sort of age-old plot to destroy EVE. He has had PLENTY of chances to allow CCP to do just that this past year.


I'm not asking him if his corp has an anti-bot program to sniff out members that bot. I have read that his rules for his corp are that if you report another member for botting, regardless of wether they are guilty or not, you get kicked. This seems to be in contradiction to his earlier statement in this thread where he encoraged players "if you see a bot, click report a bot".

I want clarification on this contradictory position.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#563 - 2012-02-09 07:57:50 UTC
Imryn Xaran wrote:
This seems to be in contradiction to his earlier statement in this thread where he encoraged players "if you see a bot, click report a bot".


Only if you're desperately cherry picking quotes to try and make it look like he supports botting.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#564 - 2012-02-09 08:02:13 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:
This seems to be in contradiction to his earlier statement in this thread where he encoraged players "if you see a bot, click report a bot".


Only if you're desperately cherry picking quotes to try and make it look like he supports botting.


Have I quoted him out of context? If so I would be happy for him to tell me that. Of course that would mean that he is infact telling the playerbase "if you see a bot, DON'T click report a bot" which is not exactly a politically sound position to take is it?

Still waiting for the Mittani's clarification on this issue
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#565 - 2012-02-09 08:10:08 UTC
Imryn, I think the goons mean, dont come to the mittani to report another goon a bot or so. Or dont go to another goon to report a goon being a bot.

Think you might still be able to click on the report a bot, but let CCP do the work of removing them and handling the bot issues not other goons handling that.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#566 - 2012-02-09 08:26:51 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Imryn, I think the goons mean, dont come to the mittani to report another goon a bot or so. Or dont go to another goon to report a goon being a bot.

Think you might still be able to click on the report a bot, but let CCP do the work of removing them and handling the bot issues not other goons handling that.


Well that's not what I read. In the (leaked) article I saw he clearly stated that any goon who reported a fellow goon to CCP for botting would be kicked.

Still awaiting clarification, and loving all the goon tears
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#567 - 2012-02-09 08:31:46 UTC
Imryn Xaran wrote:
[quote=rodyas]Well that's not what I read. In the (leaked) article I saw he clearly stated that any goon who reported a fellow goon to CCP for botting would be kicked.

Still awaiting clarification, and loving all the goon tears


I can clarify it for you. The "leaked article" you read was correct. It is against Goonswarm Federation policy to report another member of the alliance for botting.

What are you confused about?

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#568 - 2012-02-09 08:39:02 UTC
Imryn Xaran wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Imryn, I think the goons mean, dont come to the mittani to report another goon a bot or so. Or dont go to another goon to report a goon being a bot.

Think you might still be able to click on the report a bot, but let CCP do the work of removing them and handling the bot issues not other goons handling that.


Well that's not what I read. In the (leaked) article I saw he clearly stated that any goon who reported a fellow goon to CCP for botting would be kicked.

Still awaiting clarification, and loving all the goon tears


like i said, you're a stupid pubbie

shoo, back to your asteroids and ice belts

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#569 - 2012-02-09 08:44:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Imryn Xaran
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:
[quote=rodyas]Well that's not what I read. In the (leaked) article I saw he clearly stated that any goon who reported a fellow goon to CCP for botting would be kicked.

Still awaiting clarification, and loving all the goon tears


I can clarify it for you. The "leaked article" you read was correct. It is against Goonswarm Federation policy to report another member of the alliance for botting.

What are you confused about?


Thank you for that clarification, it is good to know that I didn't miss-remember what I read or get sucked in by a trolling article. Now all I need is the Mittani to clarify the contradictory positions he has taken on this issue.

How does he justify telling the playerbase that they should report bots if they see them, but telling his own alliance that they will be kicked if they report a fellow goon for botting.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#570 - 2012-02-09 08:49:55 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:

Would you mind sharing with the voter community who exactly suggested this? You have already stated it wasn't you. I'm hoping you can either clarify this, or if you don't feel comfortable outing the person who proposed this initially, I'm hoping the CSM6 member who did has the integrity to step forth and take responsibility.

Thank you, much appreciated!


I'm pretty sure it came from CCP first, but I certainly agree with it. I'd rather new capture mechanics be tested on FW before being inflicted on nullsec.


Cool, cool. It's kind of water under the bridge who came up with it, right? Cat's out of the bag now.

I think the more important question is, what sort of mechanics do you have in mind that would work well for both Faction Warfare and null sec sovereignty?

If you've got some good ideas, I can be convinced to get my people on board. We should definitely be talking specifics here though, I don't want my supporters getting all riled up about "null sec mechanics in FW" if there really isn't anything to get all doomsday about.

If you can explain to the Faction Warfare community what options you endorse that might be tested, maybe we can deflate the whole argument before it gets too out of control.



CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#571 - 2012-02-09 08:53:21 UTC
Imryn Xaran wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:
[quote=rodyas]Well that's not what I read. In the (leaked) article I saw he clearly stated that any goon who reported a fellow goon to CCP for botting would be kicked.

Still awaiting clarification, and loving all the goon tears


I can clarify it for you. The "leaked article" you read was correct. It is against Goonswarm Federation policy to report another member of the alliance for botting.

What are you confused about?


Thank you for that clarification, it is good to know that I didn't miss-remember what I read or get sucked in by a trolling article. Now all I need is the Mittani to clarify the contradictory positions he has taken on this issue.

How does he justify telling the playerbase that they should report bots if the see them, but telling his own alliance that they will be kicked if they report a fellow goon for botting.


Gee, I don't know. Directors don't want to put up with petty ratting drama, and nobody in Goonswarm would want to be the "Director of Dealing with Stupid Bullshit Like Ratting Drama." Let's say that goons were allowed to shoot and report bots - every goddamn incident would be an incident that a diplomat or director would have to deal with, and it'd be a matter of one's word versus another's.

Basically, the answer is that there is more important crap to deal with than being CCP Sreegs' little helpers.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#572 - 2012-02-09 09:04:19 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:

Cool, cool. It's kind of water under the bridge who came up with it, right? Cat's out of the bag now.

I think the more important question is, what sort of mechanics do you have in mind that would work well for both Faction Warfare and null sec sovereignty?

If you've got some good ideas, I can be convinced to get my people on board. We should definitely be talking specifics here though, I don't want my supporters getting all riled up about "null sec mechanics in FW" if there really isn't anything to get all doomsday about.

If you can explain to the Faction Warfare community what options you endorse that might be tested, maybe we can deflate the whole argument before it gets too out of control.



It might be a cat out of a bag for your people, but my people are happier with CCP not implementing ~grand ideas~ on null without testing them elsewhere first. One man's scandal is another's good sense.

However, I don't have any specific ideas about capture mechanics, nor did CCP bring up any at the summit, so the entire discussion is moot save for riling up your base (which is fine, do what you gotta do). It's actually kind of funny how little nullsec CSMs want to discuss sov mechanic changes, unless you've lived through the swap from Pos War to Dominion mechanics. (it was bad) We're more interested in working on risk/reward balance, force projection issues, tech rebalancing, etc.

There's a widespread skepticism of CCP having 'good' capture mechanic ideas across the nullsec CSM reps, given the record of Dominion; most of null is worried that there'd be some kind of a sweeping revamp of the sov system that somehow makes things even worse. I think we'd prefer CCP beta-test ideas on a smaller population and see if they work out on a smaller scale, first. If CCP can fix FW somehow, great - but if they botch it, a la Dominion, then the damage is limited in scope. It sucks being a guinea pig, but FW has been neglected for so long that any attention at all is good attention.

The sov issue/capture mechanic issue is different from stuff like Dead Horse (modular POS revamp). Everyone wants Dead Horse, it's just a matter of getting it done. There's no debate about it, no question about it being cool. By contrast, no one has a silver bullet idea for a workable capture mechanic; it's been discussed to death for years across null and CCP and no consensus has emerged other than 'all of this sucks balls and pos war, while ******, was better'.

Conveniently, the post-Incarna CCP seems to be more interested in small iterative tweaks than grand revamps. We haven't seen any plans for sov revamps, and Stoffer mentioned in ~drinks with bolton~ a possible focus on pos stuff/dead horse after the upcoming expansion, which would imply that a major sov rework of any kind is at least 2+ expansions out.

FW hasn't come up much besides dumping your suggestions in their lap and saying 'this guy knows what's up, do what he says'. (You're welcome, by the by) Amusingly for your run, I suspect by the time the elections are over most of the design work on a FW revamp will be done, since CCP began work on the post-Crucible stuff shortly after the Dec summit.

~hi~

The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#573 - 2012-02-09 09:13:12 UTC
Imryn Xaran wrote:

I want clarification on this contradictory position.


you don't deserve one, sorry publord

~hi~

Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#574 - 2012-02-09 10:11:03 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:

I want clarification on this contradictory position.


you don't deserve one, sorry publord


Really? You are happy that anyone reading this thread will know that you appear to be a two faced liar? That publicly you support CCP’s efforts to suppress botting and RMT in EVE, including use of the “Report a bot” feature, but in private you tell your alliance that if they report a fellow goon for botting they will be kicked.

If you want us to take you as seriously as you obviously take yourself I suggest you start behaving like the big time space politician you obviously think you are and front up to this issue.

Either you support CCP on this or you don’t – you can’t have it both ways.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#575 - 2012-02-09 10:42:30 UTC
Imryn Xaran wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:

I want clarification on this contradictory position.


you don't deserve one, sorry publord


Really? You are happy that anyone reading this thread will know that you appear to be a two faced liar? That publicly you support CCP’s efforts to suppress botting and RMT in EVE, including use of the “Report a bot” feature, but in private you tell your alliance that if they report a fellow goon for botting they will be kicked.

If you want us to take you as seriously as you obviously take yourself I suggest you start behaving like the big time space politician you obviously think you are and front up to this issue.

Either you support CCP on this or you don’t – you can’t have it both ways.


why don't you post yet another GD thread about the mittani oppressing goons who only wish to report their fellow alliance members for botting

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#576 - 2012-02-09 10:45:09 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:

Cool, cool. It's kind of water under the bridge who came up with it, right? Cat's out of the bag now.

I think the more important question is, what sort of mechanics do you have in mind that would work well for both Faction Warfare and null sec sovereignty?

If you've got some good ideas, I can be convinced to get my people on board. We should definitely be talking specifics here though, I don't want my supporters getting all riled up about "null sec mechanics in FW" if there really isn't anything to get all doomsday about.

If you can explain to the Faction Warfare community what options you endorse that might be tested, maybe we can deflate the whole argument before it gets too out of control.



It might be a cat out of a bag for your people, but my people are happier with CCP not implementing ~grand ideas~ on null without testing them elsewhere first. One man's scandal is another's good sense.


Faction Warfare, The Official Guinea Pigs of New Eden.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#577 - 2012-02-09 10:47:04 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:

Faction Warfare, The Official Guinea Pigs of New Eden.


You guys could use some medical product testing, it beats being neglected since 2008.

~hi~

Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#578 - 2012-02-09 10:51:45 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:

Faction Warfare, The Official Guinea Pigs of New Eden.


You guys could use some medical product testing, it beats being neglected since 2008.


As long as it makes my winter coat lustrous and shiny.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#579 - 2012-02-09 11:06:07 UTC
Imryn Xaran wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:

I want clarification on this contradictory position.


you don't deserve one, sorry publord


Really? You are happy that anyone reading this thread will know that you appear to be a two faced liar?


What, exactly, has he lied about? He's publicly stated that it's not cool for Goons to report other Goons and if he told some pubbies to report each other...what difference does it make? Are you expecting him to care a great deal about what the pubbies do with the bot reporting system?

If you want to accuse him of being some sort of RMT overlord then just man up and say it. The way you're currently going about it is embarrassing.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#580 - 2012-02-09 11:43:38 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:

I want clarification on this contradictory position.


you don't deserve one, sorry publord


Really? You are happy that anyone reading this thread will know that you appear to be a two faced liar?


What, exactly, has he lied about? He's publicly stated that it's not cool for Goons to report other Goons and if he told some pubbies to report each other...what difference does it make? Are you expecting him to care a great deal about what the pubbies do with the bot reporting system?

If you want to accuse him of being some sort of RMT overlord then just man up and say it. The way you're currently going about it is embarrassing.


I, FOR ONE, WELCOME OUR HAS-ALWAYS-BEEN-HERE RMT OVERLORD. Bear

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.