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Losing money when canceling buy orders

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Elena Ranning
008Bezirk322sschornsteinfeg432ermeiste0191r
#1 - 2013-11-11 06:56:59 UTC
When i cancel a buy order valued more than a 100m i only get a refund of 0.37 isk!

The corresponding journal entry is tagged: "Market escrow released by: Elena Ranning"

Yes i do have margin trading at level 5, but am i not supposed to be reimbursed with the escrow of 24m isk ?

Do i lose my money when i cancel buy orders? It has been happening repeatedly in the last month as far as I've noticed.
Vanchelon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-11-11 07:05:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Vanchelon
Elena Ranning wrote:
When i cancel a buy order valued more than a 100m i only get a refund of 0.37 isk!

The corresponding journal entry is tagged: "Market escrow released by: Elena Ranning"

Yes i do have margin trading at level 5, but am i not supposed to be reimbursed with the escrow of 24m isk ?

Do i lose my money when i cancel buy orders? It has been happening repeatedly in the last month as far as I've noticed.


Anything you have in escrow is piled together. So if you put up multiple orders and some of them are filled and some are not, those that are filled will first take money from what you have in escrow, and then your wallet.

Say you have 2 orders up for 100m each, so 48m in escrow. That 48m isn't tied to any one order, but is used by any order that is filled, partially or fully.

The only money you lose, is the brokers fee, which is paid when setting up the order.
Elena Ranning
008Bezirk322sschornsteinfeg432ermeiste0191r
#3 - 2013-11-15 03:12:53 UTC
Customer Support told me your answer is incorrect.
Denzar Matgul
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-11-16 14:28:59 UTC
Then what did customer support offer as their answer?
Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
#5 - 2013-11-17 03:06:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Jita
.
Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
#6 - 2013-11-17 16:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Jita
^^^ THERE WAS A DELTED POST ABOVE THIS ^^^^^^^^^^


Well duh. You had a 2x order, and one was filled so the escrow was used up. Nothing to return when you cancelled it.
I'm not even sure why you got 0.37
Thoraemond
Far Ranger
#7 - 2013-11-17 16:59:28 UTC
The GM response looks accurate to me. That said, you might want to edit that post to avoid quoting a GM's communication.

To summarize, ISK in escrow is held on a per-order basis, and since you have Market Trading at Level 5 and more than half of your buy order had been fulfilled, all the ISK in escrow for that order had already been drawn from escrow, and there was nothing to be returned to you (save for 0.37 ISK, apparently, perhaps from some rounding error).

The ISK you thought you were missing on the cancellation of the order had been used earlier to fulfil one or more transactions, and you would be able to see that in your wallet journal at that earlier time.

Basically, this highlights an unrealistic mechanic in escrow coverage that is exploited ("legally", of course, per CCP) by margin trade scammers, since this allows them to empty escrow to leave entirely-uncompletable orders on the market. A more sensible broker, taking his or her job seriously, would probably require that pilots maintain some minimum balance in escrow at all times in relation to their orders (e.g., at least enough ISK to cover the minimum amount of each order), but that doesn't happen in New Eden.

• Graph re Market Order Broker Fees (Updated 2016-04-28) • Diagram re Skills for Remote Trading •
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#8 - 2013-11-17 22:15:38 UTC
I guess my question is close enough to the topic to ask here.

I really don't understand the use of corporate wallets to put up buy orders which is especially important with the use of Margin trading.

I think my real question, is .. how do I know which wallet has been used when looking at my outstanding buy orders ?

I don't see any blue writing on my order section of my personal wallet saying that a given order is tied to a given wallet?


Am I missing a tab somewhere ?

.
Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
#9 - 2013-11-17 22:36:56 UTC
In corporation orders theres a wallet division column
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#10 - 2013-11-18 23:04:32 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Removed the GM correspondence. As it happens it is correctly summarised in the above post no.7, so the useful answer to the OP hasn't been lost.

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The posting of private communication between the Game Masters, EVE Team members, Moderators, Administrators of the forums and forum users is prohibited. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy and as such you are not permitted to publicize private correspondence (including petition responses and emails) received from any of the aforementioned parties.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#11 - 2013-11-21 08:53:22 UTC
Elena Ranning wrote:
Customer Support told me your answer is incorrect.


Yes, escrow amounts are accounted for on a per-order basis. Each time you cancel a Buy Order, you're supposed to get its escrow amount back, if there is any (i.e. if you haven't eaten into the first 24% yet, with Margin Trading 5).