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Why does null-sec want to conquer high-sec?
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Deunan Tenephais
#21 - 2013-11-10 16:20:02 UTC
KuroVolt wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Many posts.


Serious question: If you think that most Null sec alliances and Low sec alliances are basically people with similar mindsets.

Does that mean for example that CVA and Goonswarm are in your eyes one and the same?

I do not think that.

But as I wrote somewhere else, many people in hisec know of the goons without knowing who the mittani is, and I'm not sure at all they know about CVA, they probably would have to google it.

There are few infos filtering from null/low to high, partly because hiseccers are held in such low esteem by other players, partly because hiseccers themselves do not go looking for the infos by themselves.

And do not forget that EVE is really MASSIVE in its content, be it the tools provided by CCP (look at the number of modules/rigs) or the interactions of players.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#22 - 2013-11-10 16:28:41 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
Instead of sacrificing high-sec, maybe it would be better for CCP to figure out how to make the null alliances happy with where they are.



You give too much credit to forum trolls.

CCP is not going to harm the larger part of their playerbase/customer. The few changes/adds to the gam delivered in the last 3-4 expansions are, on the countrary, aimed mostly to HS playerbase: bounty system, crimewatch, duels, pler owned POCO and more; all this caters moslty to HS playerbase. Also the whole ship rebalancing as indirect huge nerf to T2 ships (traditionally designed for null sec PvP) lowering the PvP costs and SP barriers go in this direction.

We can discuss if all these changes are bad or good, but give an hint about where CCP attention is. IMO the purpose is to give more action and combat-driven gameplay options generally reserved to only a subset of players.

The last live events to me sound more like a try to introduce their major playerbase to something new to them, massive fleet operation and fights.

Null sec is stagnant, the massive coalition blocks and a lame sovreignity system strangled it; CCP is not giving any focus to null sec since years, and I think they consider it not fixable and more convenient to let it die slowly while improving something else.

They are not that stupid: Could EVE survive without HS playerbase? Surely no. Could survive without null-sec playerbase? Maybe no.
Digits Kho
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-11-10 16:49:02 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
The direction of Rubicon and recent events make me wonder why null groups even care about high-sec. Mocking them I understand, but why be so fervent about destroying the mechanics of high-sec? Null already has their own space, and if high-sec brings more subscribers into the game then that gives CCP more money to develop the game for everyone, doesn't it?

So I did a qoogle search and found this topic in a thread from a year ago: Why does nullsec care so much about what highsec is doing?

Which referenced this article in the body: The Big Lie: The Fallacies of Demonisation

I think these are well worth the read for newer subscribers.

It seems the people in null really aren't that happy. Either they're in a system they control with not much they want to do, or they're in a massive battle with TIDI, bubbles, being a spec in a blob, or waiting for their FC to tell them what to do next. So they look over at high-sec and think what a fat, juicy target that they could completely burn and destroy in about three days. Damn the consequences because it would be a lot of fun for those three days.

Instead of sacrificing high-sec, maybe it would be better for CCP to figure out how to make the null alliances happy with where they are.


When you draw a circle on the ground, then tell a person they can do anything they want anywhere they want EXCEPT inside that circle - all their attention will go to that circle. Figure out how it applies to eve
Serptimis
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-11-10 17:25:20 UTC
Q: Why does null sec want to conquer high sec?
A: Because it's there.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#25 - 2013-11-10 17:39:34 UTC
I am the Prince of Rens.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#26 - 2013-11-10 18:01:20 UTC
Digits Kho wrote:

When you draw a circle on the ground, then tell a person they can do anything they want anywhere they want EXCEPT inside that circle - all their attention will go to that circle. Figure out how it applies to eve


I don't know if that is true if you think that what you have outside the circle is clearly better than what's inside the circle.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#27 - 2013-11-10 18:41:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Shiloh Templeton
KuroVolt wrote:
Also OP: Did you even read the Malcanis article you linked?

If you did, you obviously only focused on the half dealing with high sec and completely ignored the half dealing with null sec.
Because the whole article actually revolved around why threads like this are stupid.



I'm new, so I'm still trying to learn the mechanics, psychology and community of the game. I'm learning first hand what it's like to try to climb the massive learning curve and gain a foothold in high-sec. I only learn second hand about null and low via blogs and what that group posts on these forums or reddit. I posted that thread and the article because they show both sides of the argument which I think is valuable (especially to newer players like myself).

I'm sure it's not the opinion of everyone in null, but 'tear down these walls' is a common refrain. If you did, I think there would be almost no new players in Eve. I sure wouldn't have stayed past the trial if every time I undocked I was in the middle an alliance turf battle and had to pay a tax to both sides. Or shanghaied, given a cheap frigate and ordered to go out there and die. Bear

Rubicon makes me nervous because of the POCO change and the 'no turning back' slogan. I guess we'll find out what that means soon enough.
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-11-10 18:47:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Marzetti
I really do think the POCO changes and the siphons are both intended by CCP to give things for highsec players to do besides mine and run missions. I think they imagine highsec corps warring over POCOs, and highsec thieves venturing out into low and null to ninja harvest moon minerals. Whether those will be the actual uses of the tools they've delivered or not is subject to debate, but I really do believe that those are their intentions.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-11-10 18:47:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Think of it like the Cold War only NC and Friends vs Goons and Friends. We want to kill each other but we don't want to actually lose anything in the process.

So we're just going to invade a completely neutral area and wage war there, hope you don't mind. We apologize that our 6000 man battles that will change the economy, politics, and geography of the game for years to come are interrupting your solo missioning and afk mining.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#30 - 2013-11-10 19:01:20 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:

When dudes in nullsec have to constantly work to hold onto everything they have.... that's called "doing it for yourself".
When dudes hang out in protected areas, reaping the benefits of a strict set of rules... that's called "assisted living".

It doesn't take a Libertarian to figure this junk out.


Sov null is safe as kittens compared to living in high sec these days.

Low and NPC null is where you have to pay a little attention and have a little situational awareness.

Basically the players in sov that play the forum more than the game due to to sheer boredom of living there are doing most of the whining. They don't really care about high sec. They just want to cry about something and high sec is an easy target.

Mr Epeen Cool
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-11-10 19:01:43 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
I really do think the POCO changes and the siphons are both intended by CCP to give things for highsec players to do besides mine and run missions. I think they imagine highsec corps warring over POCOs, and highsec thieves venturing out into low and null to ninja harvest moon minerals. Whether those will be the actual uses of the tools they've delivered or not is subject to debate, but I really do believe that those are their intentions.

I am absolutely certain those tools will be used. By whom and to what degree of success remains to be seen.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Wawarp Dridrive ActActive
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-11-10 19:02:22 UTC
Nullsec is supposed to be more profitable than highsec. Otherwise there is no point of nullsec.

So yes nullsec players should care about highsec.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#33 - 2013-11-10 19:22:48 UTC
I'm guessing OP is talking about POCOs, because that seems to be the only particular thing in Rubicon to affect hisec particularly. Frankly this will make hisec more profitable and more competitive for factory planets, and generate content for people in hisec. If nullsec people come and try to take over POCOs, then hisec people can fight them without worrying about bubbles, bombs, and especially capitals. Seems like a big buff to hisec for me.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-11-10 19:30:42 UTC
I don't even think of myself as a nullsec player. I think of myself as a sometimes-log-into-jabber-and-talk-about-things player. Artificial distinctions are silly. Many people who belong to nullsec corporations have characters in highsec. A great deal of commerce and investment by the ~nullsec players~ goes on in highsec. All these silly threads about an alleged distaste for highsec by nullsec players are silly, because most nullsec players are also highsec players and at the same time are not nearly self-aware enough to hate themselves. Because hating yourself means realizing that something about you is wrong, and I'll be damned if I'm going to admit on a public forum that I'm not literally perfect in every way; and, if you so much as imply anything other than that, then heaven help you because I will flame you from here 'til Tuesday.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2013-11-10 19:46:43 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:

Sov null is safe as kittens compared to living in high sec these days.

Low and NPC null is where you have to pay a little attention and have a little situational awareness.

Basically the players in sov that play the forum more than the game due to to sheer boredom of living there are doing most of the whining. They don't really care about high sec. They just want to cry about something and high sec is an easy target.

Mr Epeen Cool


You speak as if we all don't have access to dotlan and can't do the simple math that would refute your claims. Or maybe you speak as if you can't do those things and are going purely by conjecture. I can't really tell.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#36 - 2013-11-10 19:48:24 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:

Rubicon makes me nervous because of the POCO change and the 'no turning back' slogan. I guess we'll find out what that means soon enough.


Don't worry, nothing is going to happen, it's only CCP marketing :)
Less they do more they try to make it sound epic.

Like:

"new frontiers for the humankind" -> rookie ships retexturing
"the universe will never be the same again" -> missile damage nerf

and so on...
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-11-10 19:49:59 UTC
EVE in general is a pretty boring game most of the time, because the PVE is a terrible click-and-wait tedium and humans are risk averse; therefore, unless you are doing highsec ganking (which is totes fun), fights are few and far between in comparison to pretty much any other game on the market. There are notable exceptions some of the time, and like with any other activity being in a group you like alleviates the bad and augments the good. In other words, people have opinions and trying to say which is right or wrong and assign blame across those lines is silly and unproductive.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Kairos Antilles
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-11-10 20:00:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kairos Antilles
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
You both OBVIOUSLY don't get it.

Like, at all. You have this ridiculous "Saturday morning cartoon villain" vision of what motives people have for thinking a certain way.

And your post do not explain anything about "the true nullsec" mindset, it actualy sems to confirm what the poster above you wrote.
If you do not want to give meaningful answers then please do not add to the pile-up.


Meaningful answers require meaningful questions - a commodity sorely lacking in this thread.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-11-10 20:01:47 UTC
Kairos Antilles wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
You both OBVIOUSLY don't get it.

Like, at all. You have this ridiculous "Saturday morning cartoon villain" vision of what motives people have for thinking a certain way.

And your post do not explain anything about "the true nullsec" mindset, it actualy sems to confirm what the poster above you wrote.
If you do not want to give meaningful answers then please do not add to the pile-up.


Meaningful answers require meaningful questions.

Meanwhile being smug is free.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Brusanan
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#40 - 2013-11-10 20:01:54 UTC
ITT: OP fails to realize that PVP happens outside of nullsec, and that highsec POCOs are intended to provide content for PVPers who live in highsec.