EVE General Discussion

ok so i Don't normally read the forms but new who? I've been a miner for as long as this character has existed, never had to pay anybody for the privilege of mining, except for the brief time, about a year, when i was in null but that was more an access thing.

As for what somebody above said about if it wasn't for PVPs and mission runners miners wouldn't blah blah blah. All I want to do with that statement is basically point at human nature. Is there any time at all during human history there wasn't some sort of war going on somewhere, I'm sure we could find a 5 minute period at some time or another. So your point is kind of pointless. Where there are humans involved and weapons fighting, killing etc will happen. Where there is the first the second will come and that is people who will build the weapons, ammo and ways to kill people, thus making a profit from it all.

It's a complex situation I've been studying with some fascination since I became aware of the New Order. And it's definitely not just aimed at botters.

I'm similarly mystified as to why a bunch of people minding their own business tend to be the subject of such hatred... but It might be the responses some give when that business is disturbed by bump or gank.

I've actually been reading a number of James 513's Mittani writings - I have a miner, pre-industrialist alt and I tend to spend a fair amount of time in hi-sec, so I figured it's best to understand one's potential enemy - and I went in expecting some sort of disingenuous and elaborate justification for griefing miners, but... reading them, I get the feeling that I am reading the words of a man who genuinely believes that safe hi-sec mining is a blight on the soul of his beloved game.

The argument, as I understand it - and allow me to emphasize that I don't necessarily agree with it; I'm only a few months in and still assessing things, and I'm just trying to understand the social forces and lines of thought at work here - is that high-security mining, whatever it does for the game by providing an income stream for new players, does not by itself make the game interesting compared to the game's PVP engines, and is vulnerable to botting or mostly-AFK work; and that some miners, when ganked or otherwise disrupted, tend to complain loudly about it. Perhaps, some of these complaints have brought about semi-recent changes to high-security to make it safer, like the increased cost of war declarations and some not-insignificant buffs to Mining Barge HP.

If high security is safer and still profitable, goes the reasoning, everyone will go there instead of doing PvP in null or lowsec, and since Eve's bizarre mix of PvPvE is one of the things that makes it unique on the MMO market, anything that drives people away from low/nullsec or even looks like the start of a slippery slope away from it is bad; The doomsday scenario here is EVE one day providing a genuine safe-zone in high-sec, selling its soul to appeal to a wider audience.

And that is why, if I understand correctly, there are people so quick to shout down complaining miners/"Carebears.". If those miners are heard and listened to, Eve eventually loses its soul.

Someone can feel totally free to correct me if I've oversimplified or misunderstood this, though.

And of course, that's the most intellectual argument I've yet heard for a dislike of high-sec mining. Some people likely genuinely are just narcissistic pricks, who see miners as insufficiently aggressive to be playing a cutthroat game like EVE and who don't belong in their testosterone-laden world.

The narcissistic prick is James 315. The notion that some miners are protected and others are not is laughable. The New Order regularly attacks those who have bought permits. James' website could list those who have paid, as a reference, but chooses not to because there is no reference list. Some individual gankers may use their blue pen but this information is not communicated to the collection of misfits that identify themselves with the new order. For example, NODD couldn't spell 'cat' if you spotted them the 'c' and the 't.' How can anyone imagine they bother to keep lists?

James fails if there is truly order. That and the fact that the order only can manage a handful of systems points to this being more of a public relations success then any sort of control of highsec. What it comes down to is that James and all of his alts are great if you want to launch an ad campaign or start up a cult of the ignorant. Beyond that, they are pretty much worthless.

I don't understand how people don't understand.

Nobody wants to be ganked. But when it happens to you, either figure out real quick how to make sure it doesn't happen again, or just laugh it off. It's funny that I'm an idiot. It's funny that the baby started crying and just after that someone decided to check for AFK mining. I could have docked, it's two buttons (pull in drones, dock). But I didn't because I wanted my ore a little bit faster. And so I could get ganked for whatever time I'm away taking care of my baby. I knew it when I did it. It was okay to come back to a capsule. Sorry I missed it, I would have liked to have gotten away, but I didn't and that's on.. the gankers! NO! ME! Put the blame where it should be and stop complaining.

"Losing is fun." - Dwarf Fortress.

Mining is so much more exciting when you're monitoring and hoping to catch someone coming to ruin your day before they get a chance to do so.

Anybody who just goes out there for easy money and gets ganked got exactly what they asked for. The amount of 'easy' you put into EVE, the more likely you'll just get killed.

You should read the code yourself, a permit only guarantees that the NO guys won't gank you if you comply with the code, and yes they do have a list. Complying with the code requires not being AFK when you're mining, being found to be AFK is grounds for permit termination, at which point you become a valid target. AFAIK the only permit holders being ganked by James and his merry men are ones that are non code compliant, eg; not at the damn keyboard.

The Cat
Herder
Rises!

sounds like a new expansion

Actually... You'd be suprised

BUMPITY BUMP the unsuspecting mining barge with teh pod!!

Pod Doctrine!!!

I can confirm, that for myself at least, every permit-holding miner I have taken action against was violating at least one of the terms of the Code. There haven't been many, one or two that I recall, but in every case they were not Code compliant.

Miners need to look at it this way. Once you get a driver's license, are you then permitted to run over old ladies in crosswalks? of course not. A mining permit is the first step. Following the rules after you have a permit is the important part.