Warfare & Tactics

hunting coverts is sort of easy if there moving from system to system .
1/ ninja sabre
2/ insta locking ceptors
3/ drag bubbles with something to decloak on said bubble
all work very well, 90% of bomber pilots don't know how to fly them even ones that class them selfs as pro's

Somebody messaged me in game, didn't feel comfy posting on the forums, left something I hadn't recognized about the interceptor changes. If they are nullified in Rubicon good chance they can follow a tech 3 nullified through bubbles which has been a problem for fleets chasing them. They tend to get caught in their own bubbles. So in short tech 3 cloaky nullys stack up more warp stabs just in-case.

Good point. Most wspace warfare seems to happen between groups within a few systems of one another due to the time it takes to travel the fleet with the risk being unexpected encounter with hostile group and/or target leaving before they arrive or stranded from their home system having to spend time to work their way back to it. This can be significant investment in time, but also why we seen such great small gang warfare coming out of wspace veterans. Hot droppers get to stay at home and project power much further for a much lesser investment of money/time. Though don't really think this needs changing with this only be viable tactic when intel has identified target and what can be known gained to minimize the risk.

With intel in mind I would say that it is a valuable benefit and can indirectly lead to ISK, hence no benefit should be obtained without risk. You are effectively safe once at your mid-point and reaping (action) a benefit. Ratters/Miners, etc still have the penalty of paying attention when undocked, staying aligned, etc at the risk of somebody coming in on them regardless if they are cloaky or not. A cloaked pilot does not have this penalty.

As to catching you moving sure it can be done as is the same for when a cloaked pilot engages, but again out in mid-space they are effectively isolated from other players with essentially no chance of finding them. Again re-iterate if you are undocked you are in danger always.

*decloaks*

No.

*recloaks*

OF COURSE I CAN!

For comparison:

C5 Site Running Fleet (RR Tengus) = 2.5 Bil (WH)
Nullbear Mackinaw/Hulk Mining Fleets = 1 bil- 3 bil (Null)

Also note:
C5 Site Escalation Fleet (WH) = 16-25 billion

In wormhole space, we routinely throw obscene amounts of money around, despite the risk of:
1. Gank fleet logged in your hole, possibly supported by triage carrier while you were sleeping
2. A hole full of PWNage opening to you with caps sieged on field


Keep in mind we also mine (sometimes) not knowing if theres 20 bombers just AFK around to grief you

When it does happen, we take our losses with space honor and move on with life. When the null bear dies, its some akin to: "OMG I DIED. YOU GUYS, YOU GUYS, YOU GUYS [His Land Lords] I JUST GOT MY 10 MACKINAWS GANKED BY 20 MEN IN BOMBERS. YOU GUYS, YOU GUYS, YOU GUYS COME SAVE ME AND MAKE THEM GO AWAY SO I CAN KEEP PAYING MY RENT PLEAZE!"

The problem is, null bears have been allowed to frollick through null asteroid belts in absolute safety, with no obligation to actually try to defend their space of profits. You should not be making billions without the fear something terrible is able to happen to you any moment.

I am SO glad to see the interceptor/ warp velocity changes happening. We are shipping a ton of interceptors into hole, and will be shot gunning through all the belts/ore sites we encounter as we roam our null exits.

I agree.

Ratters and miners in LS as in NPC null share their quote of risks; so do ratters and miners in WH space. And the same in HS. But sov null residents? Nooooo, they shouldn't face any risk! Even the only very limited and only potential risk from a frigate cloacked in their system doing nothing have to be removed! For some reason this spoiled minority of players think to be the only gameplay entiteled to perfect safety, like an istanced area or a separate PvE server.

And they also think to be entiteled to bother the whole EVE community reposting continuosly the same lame arguments with different NPC corps alts.

And you discuss, explain your arguments, talk about game balance and how is not correct to remove parts of game options only to make their farming easyer... but is always a waste of time cause always ends with them stating some argument like "yes ok, but we don't give a **** to the general gameplay, we have to do this cause we are special snowflakes"

There's nothing wrong in cloacking, AFKing, hotdropping. What is wrong here is that to kill a single miner in some sov null area the only viable options are based on coordinating cynos, T3 skills, SB fleets, covops, BLOPS, bridges, AFK cloacking for days, hotdrops and so on. More (much more) than what is needed to kill a miner in HS.

THIS is bad for the gameplay and need to change as soon as possible.

I won't respond to posters who intentionally misquote me... It's almost like they are behaving as a politician (lowest of lifeforms) running for office.

1. Again how does what I propose grant ratters, miners, etc.100% safety.
2. Cloaking would still exist and would function as it does today except with a counter (with significant barrier to entry).
3. Never said BLOP mechanics are an issue.
4. Intel is a benefit and agree local is an issue where intel can be earned with no risk. Same applies to cloaked mid-space ship.
5. Like the new interceptor changes. Might even help with grabbing nullified ships.

Unfortunately, misquoting you is necessary to extract your actual desire from the bullshit that encapsulates it. We get it. You want risk-free nullbearing, and you're only just barely smart enough to understand that coming out and saying that will get you laughed off the board, so you've presented us with this clownishly lipsticked pig of an idea to make it seem like you're just trying to augment the peeveepeez.

Nobody is falling for it.




It's very simple. Right now, they have near-100% safety, by virtue of the existence of the perfect intelligence provided by local. As long as they can exert the monumental effort it takes to look at a chat window, they can flee to safety long before anyone has any hope of catching them, even if they know where they are.

There are no hard counters to this type of risk-aversion, which is pretty ironic when you consider that it's a behavior that's only found in null-sec - Eve's big bad "high-risk" frontier.

There is one soft counter: You can hang out, cloaked, indefinitely, thereby forcing the nullbear to either stop 'bearing or accept a measure of risk.

So, the brokenly-OP intel mechanic of local has exactly one soft counter, mechanically speaking, and you want to implement a hard counter to that soft counter, under the premise that "abloobloobloo, cloaking doesn't have a counter," thereby leaving local without even a soft counter... a notion that you don't seem to have much of a problem with, and isn't that curious?


It's almost like you have no actual philosophical objection to mechanics that can't be countered, except when they work against you, which is to say it's almost like you're completely full of ****.

Cloaking IS the counter.

There was a young man from Nantuket,
Who decloaked in a rusty bucket,
His weapons were cocked, but everyones docked,
A bear said in local "Aww fuckitt"!

Also a write-up from EVE Las Vegas 2013 from a Q&A sessions with devs comments on cloaking. Nothing definitive other than a direction of the change if they were going to change it. http://lowseclifestyle.blogspot.com/2013/10/eve-vegas-2013-day-two-morning-session.html.

Cloaky prober works. I think...