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[Rubicon] Rapid Missile Launchers - v2

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Author
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1481 - 2013-11-14 21:06:07 UTC
X'ret wrote:

Its 69.3 with perfect skillz. I told this 2-3 days ago in this thread already, 1k comments earlier or so..

Thank you, didn't see it somehow. So not only Cerb pilots need to wait 4 times longer to reload, now they can say good bye to XLASB - LSE combo as well. It gets better and better.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#1482 - 2013-11-14 21:17:16 UTC  |  Edited by: scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
X'ret wrote:

Its 69.3 with perfect skillz. I told this 2-3 days ago in this thread already, 1k comments earlier or so..

Thank you, didn't see it somehow. So not only Cerb pilots need to wait 4 times longer to reload, now they can say good bye to XLASB - LSE combo as well. It gets better and better.

Drink the Kool-Aid and switch to turrets. The more people that make the switch, the sooner CCP can stop going full-****** on missiles and just get rid of them like I imagine they want to.
I got back into Eve after a 10-month Persian Gulf break and decided to step out of my little Eve-world and the biggest thing I have discovered is that missiles are near-pointless. My cruise missiles are accurate over 200km, which is laughable outside of using a MJD(or similar tactic) for missions. My torps are mediocre as long as I am shooting something size of a station that has zero movement and I don't mind scrapping my tank for TPs and still being outdone by blasters. My Heavies suck so bad that light missiles tend to be a more useful alternative, and my HAMs will probably only see use on a T3 cruiser. My capital options aren't even worth mentioning except as the subject of a very poor joke.
I have the only weapon system in the game that has a flight time, which means that the only time I can outperform a projectile weapon (that somehow manages to lob a projectile at the same speed as a ******* laser *while a missile has a max velocity in a vacuum instead of a max acceleration) is if I am close enough to mitigate the flight time or if I have luxury of having the target completely immobilized.
The well-touted damage selection of missiles seems like a pretty poor trade-off when the standard reaction I have gotten when trying to do anything with other people by using missiles is "Couldn't you bring anything better?"
And now, because CCP seems to have a major disconnect with the players and places more importance on forcing a half-assed change instead of taking the time to do the job right, I feel like I am getting shafted even more. Of course as a missile pilot this seems to pretty damn standard.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#1483 - 2013-11-14 21:20:11 UTC
X'ret wrote:
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Jinshu wrote:
However, at least the current singularity implementation for RLML shows another significant nerf:

Powergrid usage increased from 47.7 to 69.3 per launcher with my skills, that is an increase by 45%.

Please check and reconfirm, still can't really believe it.

Can anyone confirm it please? It's that's true, it will be an epic fail because you can nerf one or the other, never both. At least not for this one.


Its 69.3 with perfect skillz. I told this 2-3 days ago in this thread already, 1k comments earlier or so..



while this does not make me any happier a normal cara fit 2x lse is still possible so the nerf isnt that big of a deal

dunno about the cerb fits though.

im very unhappy of how CCP deals with us here.
imho they should be communicating a bit more.... as a player that realy loves eve i feel treated like a dumb child atm.
beeing told were going to disneyland while were heading for the dentist....

Elusive Panda
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1484 - 2013-11-14 21:38:39 UTC
What about keeping the current reload time of 40 seconds, but make it so the weapons auto-reload one charge at a time while not firing? (If you reactivate the weapon, it stops reloading).

This would allow skirmishing Caracal/Cerb to fly in, snipe a frig or two, pull range, wait to reload a bit and reengage without the fear of getting caught while reloading and be unable to do anything about it.
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1485 - 2013-11-14 21:43:04 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:

Drink the Kool-Aid and switch to turrets.

I am turret already but still, I do care for the game Cool
Rise, don't you think it would be fair to provide some kind of intro warning for new players so they can avoid/skip training missiles at the moment and rather invest their time and isk into something less hated?
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#1486 - 2013-11-14 22:03:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
Kane Fenris wrote:
X'ret wrote:
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Jinshu wrote:
However, at least the current singularity implementation for RLML shows another significant nerf:

Powergrid usage increased from 47.7 to 69.3 per launcher with my skills, that is an increase by 45%.

Please check and reconfirm, still can't really believe it.

Can anyone confirm it please? It's that's true, it will be an epic fail because you can nerf one or the other, never both. At least not for this one.


Its 69.3 with perfect skillz. I told this 2-3 days ago in this thread already, 1k comments earlier or so..



while this does not make me any happier a normal cara fit 2x lse is still possible so the nerf isnt that big of a deal

dunno about the cerb fits though.

im very unhappy of how CCP deals with us here.
imho they should be communicating a bit more.... as a player that realy loves eve i feel treated like a dumb child atm.
beeing told were going to disneyland while were heading for the dentist....



No big deal. Some of us decided to go full William Wallace with the Cerberus. Blue, black and Gray Kilt (X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster & DCl) and no underwear (no large shield extender). Just one big Bastard Sword (maximum damage output) and good legs to run on. I mean sure you could get one volleyed by a long bowmen (Tornado) but real men die pant-less.

Also LSE setup is still possible with PG change.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#1487 - 2013-11-15 00:10:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Zvaarian the Red
Jinshu wrote:
I don't want to contribute about the pros and cons of burst against reload.
However, at least the current singularity implementation for RLML shows another significant nerf:

Powergrid usage increased from 47.7 to 69.3 per launcher with my skills, that is an increase by 45%.

Please check and reconfirm, still can't really believe it.


ROFL...and the hits keep coming.

Seriously this has to be some kind of practical joke right?

Rise? Are you even reading this thread anymore?
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1488 - 2013-11-15 00:24:02 UTC
Are you sure you don't want to change your mind and deny me my Tengu that hits frigates for 600 DPS? It's not too late to stop the retardation!
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1489 - 2013-11-15 00:27:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
Just kidding: I know you're not reading this, Rise. Why bother when you've already made up your mind about ~*game balance*~. While I'm talking about game balance, though, I hear there's a position for an expert game designer open at SOE that you might want to apply for: someone has to make the TR guns in Planetside 2 more overpowered: Vanu keep winning alerts with their superior weapons.
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#1490 - 2013-11-15 00:31:29 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Are you sure you don't want to change your mind and deny me my Tengu that hits frigates for 600 DPS? It's not too late to stop the retardation!


The most amazing thing about these changes is how they are managing to make RLMLs overpowered or useless depending on the situation, with nothing in between. Truly wonderful game design.
Chi Garu
Perkone
Caldari State
#1491 - 2013-11-15 00:37:41 UTC
This is what happens when you hire players as game developers. Cool
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1492 - 2013-11-15 00:47:18 UTC
I'm thinking more and more that what should happen is that the rapid launchers should go back to the more conventional design, and this theme of high RoF, long reload time should be introduced in a complete new range of launchers (concept name: "salvo launchers"?) covering all missile types from rockets to cruise missiles (maybe even citadels!).

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1493 - 2013-11-15 00:58:28 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
I'm thinking more and more that what should happen is that the rapid launchers should go back to the more conventional design, and this theme of high RoF, long reload time should be introduced in a complete new range of launchers (concept name: "salvo launchers"?) covering all missile types from rockets to cruise missiles (maybe even citadels!).


Or maybe there should be no such thing as a weapon that turns you into an essentially tracking-free, ultra-high DPS weapon for any period of time, because EVE doesn't need even lower TTKs or even-harder-to-mitigate damage application. What was the point of nerfing tracking enhancers and fiddling with medium gun tracking values etc if they're then going to come in and add a missile launcher that hits to over 60km and does ~400 to ~600 DPS to frigates on the hulls that are bonused for their use?

Rise keeps comparing his RLMLs to artillery because "both do front-loaded damage," while conveniently forgetting that alpha is not the same as sustained DPS over almost a minute of combat and that the guns that do that high alpha come with massive tracking drawbacks and the inability to apply any damage at all to small targets except for rare cases (high pilot skill, pilot error on the receiving end, bad luck, etc).

Saying these RLMLs are like artillery assumes that artillery has the tracking and signature size of a small autocannon combined with the range and damage of 1400mm... and somehow the "long reload" is supposed to make this OK by "adding suspense."

tl;dr:

- Such damage!

- Most application!

- So scare!

- Wow!
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#1494 - 2013-11-15 02:11:16 UTC
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
Are you sure you don't want to change your mind and deny me my Tengu that hits frigates for 600 DPS? It's not too late to stop the retardation!


The most amazing thing about these changes is how they are managing to make RLMLs overpowered or useless depending on the situation, with nothing in between. Truly wonderful game design.



CCP > if it ain't broke, break it Lol

Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1495 - 2013-11-15 03:28:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
4 days until the new RHMLs. Can't wait! Pirate

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Iyacia Cyric'ai
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#1496 - 2013-11-15 03:44:56 UTC
So what this essentially does is buff the RLML Caracal's ability to roflpwn frigates and dessies (because it needed help in that department???) while almost completely eliminating their potential to kill other decently tanked cruisers solo since you'll need to either kite/tank for 40 seconds or warp off to reload in safety (i.e. letting your target go).

CCP Rise
Taking Solo Away
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1497 - 2013-11-15 04:03:33 UTC
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
So what this essentially does is buff the RLML Caracal's ability to roflpwn frigates and dessies (because it needed help in that department???) while almost completely eliminating their potential to kill other decently tanked cruisers solo since you'll need to either kite/tank for 40 seconds or warp off to reload in safety (i.e. letting your target go).

CCP Rise
Taking Solo Away


Pretty much.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#1498 - 2013-11-15 04:08:03 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
So what this essentially does is buff the RLML Caracal's ability to roflpwn frigates and dessies (because it needed help in that department???) while almost completely eliminating their potential to kill other decently tanked cruisers solo since you'll need to either kite/tank for 40 seconds or warp off to reload in safety (i.e. letting your target go).

CCP Rise
Taking Solo Away


Pretty much.

Or, as Rise has pointed out you could always set your launchers into 2 groups and stagger them. This way, because an overall 20% drop in DPS is completely different if you use 2 groups, you'll have the same dps as you do now without the downtime. Also, if your ship blows up he'll sprinkle you with magic pixie dust from his pocket and let you ride on his boyfriend the unicorn all the way to Narnia where he did the math to come up with those figures.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1499 - 2013-11-15 04:23:58 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
So what this essentially does is buff the RLML Caracal's ability to roflpwn frigates and dessies (because it needed help in that department???) while almost completely eliminating their potential to kill other decently tanked cruisers solo since you'll need to either kite/tank for 40 seconds or warp off to reload in safety (i.e. letting your target go).

CCP Rise
Taking Solo Away


Pretty much.

Or, as Rise has pointed out you could always set your launchers into 2 groups and stagger them. This way, because an overall 20% drop in DPS is completely different if you use 2 groups, you'll have the same dps as you do now without the downtime. Also, if your ship blows up he'll sprinkle you with magic pixie dust from his pocket and let you ride on his boyfriend the unicorn all the way to Narnia where he did the math to come up with those figures.


Hey man, Rise doesn't need math to do game balancing: he just needs his natural talent.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1500 - 2013-11-15 04:41:01 UTC
Is all this griping cathartic?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.