Player Features and Ideas Discussion

That means that In 1 year they will change the 40 sec reload timer to 39 and gives +1 missile to the launchers?
Sorry couldn't resist, I really shouldn't post, no experience with RMLs what so ever.
And Rise, you already set your mind and will go forward because the HUGE negative feedback you got in a MMO forum is disorganized? Really?

OBS: Changes are good, they keep the game moving, but you guys are doing so many of them, and so fast, that you should drop the line "if it's not ok will fix it later", because honestly, you don't have time, and you really should try to *make time for it*.

Nobody is arguing about the mechanic. People are 'mainly' complaining about the loss of switching damage types, the DPS loss, and the 40 second reload.

Switching ammo types is a large problem. Retribution jumps into you, and you have explosive ammo loaded. You're screwed. You don't have time to change ammo, and because he can easily tank and tackle you, your only option is to run.

DPS loss - This is a MAJOR change. 20% sustained DPS loss over a 90second period. Think about how long most fights are, and think about putting out 20% less DPS over the entire fight. If the burst damage was sustained for longer it would be fine, but it's terrible atm. The burst damage isn't even strong enough to kill a MWD'ing Interceptor (which will be highly prevalent after Rubicon). And you're dead after he tackles you. Also.. Cerb with LML is stronger than a Cerb with RLML? What other crusier weapon in the game has worse DPS than it's frigate variant?

40 second reload - Nobody wants to be useless in a fight. Think about how much frustration ECM causes. Now think of self-inflicted ECM that lasts 4x as long. Or in TiDi, think about sitting around for 7 minutes while you watch your reload timer. I'll go fire my missiles, then go eat a sandwhich, come back and I still won't be able to fire again.

They agree that changing ammo types is an issue that will be addressed.

A loss in DPS "is" going to happen one way or another for these launchers. Doing it this way you get a short period of heightened damage to work with instead of just a nerf to damage. Personally, I prefer the heightened short term damage as it gives me some very interesting options. If you prefer a straight up nerf instead that is your prerogative.

Also, using your logic, Arty would be a vastly inferior weapons system that nobody would ever use simply because it's DPS is inferior to other weapons systems. Obviously, used properly, this is not the case.

40 seconds is an interesting amount of time to work with actually. I sincerely doubt that most people are going to sit around waiting for 40 seconds waiting to do something to benefit their situation, no more than they sit around waiting for an ASB to reload. If you can't kite, warp out and reposition. 40 seconds is actually about right for that type of maneuvering in a cruiser or BS.

As I said, there is definitely some room for fiddling with the numbers (ROF, ammo capacity, reload timer). I personally don't have an objection either way if the decision were made to wait until the next point release. But most of the objections being raised are based in very 2 dimensional thinking and trying to shoe horn this into current gang comps and tactics... which is not playing to it's strengths very well. There are other methodologies, tried and true, that will compliment this weapons systems strengths quite nicely.

I'm not where I can check at the moment, but I believe a look should be given to the missile bonuses of a few ships to with these changes in mind.

Low/passive modules and mid/active script-able modules affecting missile damage application and/or projection (or add effect to TE/TC), new e-war module that will affect missiles same way TDs affect turrets (or just include that effect into TDs). This will give same tank-or-application and damage-or-application choice turret users currently have for missile users, missile dreads might become useful (heresy!) on par with tracking dreads, more rig choices for long and short range missile systems aside from rigor+rigor+flare or speed+speed+time.
You promised these changes quite a long time ago.

While you are at it make TP a high-slot module as there are not enough "utilities" to use with utility slots you put everywhere and only then look for a way to balance missiles.

Why even bother asking for feedback if you're just going to ignore it all?

Why exactly do RLMLs need to be changed? Currently they do less damage with better application than HAMs or HMLs. Seems to me that's how it should work...

Entirely unrelated: will "overloaded" RLMLs be usable in the next alliance tournament?

Precisely !

People are disapproving the change because even if the burst mechanic is interesting, it also means almost certain death in other situations (Yes there is still an average dps, but missiles are already weak on paper dps and highly susceptible to speed and radius in terms of damage reduction).

The solution of a script would be more than reasonable, creating a new gameplay without affecting the current mechanic. If a nerf is needed concerning RLMLs in the way they work against other targets, it shall be done by other ways than giving the module a 40seconds reload time, because it greatly incapacitates a fleet that would need to wait 40seconds for one member reloading before unleashing the dps, and because it greatly impairs PvE with these modules, a point that is ignored currently. (no burst dps needed in pve, waiste of time if you have to reload for 40 seconds to kill one weak ship)


So what's bad ?

1- The proposed mechanic adresses the concerns about RLMLs and RHMLs the same way, whereas these concerns are actually entierly different. (You may take down a frigate without reloading, but not a battlecruiser...) Also, I don't think RLMLs needed a nerf in the first place. Neither RHMLs as demonstrated in TMCs post about the first iteration.

2- This is even more frustrating that it prevents BS missile platforms from finally finding a weapon against smaller targets.

3- The proposed mechanic helps killing things that were already killable, and prevents killing things that were already hard to kill with this weapon system, thus increasing the inbalance between the two situations, increasing frustration for frigate pilots and increasing frustration for cruiser pilots when they die because of the reload time. (BTW that's exactly why ECM is bad, because it is frustrating for both opponents)

4- The proposed mechanic further impairs caldaris that are limited in damage type (which is frustrating since they are the missile race) by giving them a longer reload time in the already rare situations when they must switch.

5- PvE almost impossible with these things.

6- Wasting time rebalancing tiny bits of missiles where the missile system as a whole needs to be redone, is pointless.

CCP RIse, I hope that this way the feedback is clearer because I can't find a best way to deliver it.

A new module that counters missiles would be interesting and workable, adding it to the current TD's would simply make TD the overwhelming choice for ewar (that's another thread entirely and has been visited already last winter).

But seriously, nerf the old launchers some and put the new ones in as another weapons system.

As for why we're stuck with this load of crap going live is simply because it's already been submitted to the upcoming TQ build as a finished product and it can't be removed apparently.

It isn't going to get revisited and we know it, just like industrial implants were going to work (and still don't), Tech 3 battlecruisers and BS's were going to be released, POS's were going to get reworked and a whole crapload of SOON™ projects that never happened and will not.

SD affects all ships, ECM affects all ships, TP while not really e-war but affects all ships, neuts, webs, scrams - all affect all ships. Only TD is a special snowflake. It wont be OP if changing mode/scripts from turrets to missiles will take some time.

Scripts have the same reload timer as lasers currently, I could agree with a short reload to change scripts.