Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I was talking about T1 frigs. After the resistance nerf, I don't think even a punisher can have 10k ehp, so what are you talking about, T2 frigs? Those that cost more than a well-fit caracal, each? And it goes against the two of them and still kills one? Sounds pretty OP to me.

Actually God must had forbidden people to understand how things work.

So I'll explain it again : the fundamental difference between turret and missiles is that missiles do reliable and constant dps whereas turret dps is heavily affected by fly paths and relative speed.

You can avoid both weapon system damages, and speed play an important factor for both of them. The only difference is that missile damage avoidance is passive whereas turret damage avoidance is active.

So, missiles indeed have less ways to avoid damage avoidance than turrets, but they also have less ways to be avoided to begin with, so that balances out.

Hence why you can make some fit completely immune to missiles ; that is the equivalent of some piloting techniques making some ships completely immune to turrets. It's passive versus active, and that is the inherant design phylosophy behind turrets and missiles. Complaining about this is the same as complaining about drones being destroyable.

In the end, what is left for comparison is the dps over range graph and the ability to avoid the weapon damage in common scenarios, not in edge case scenarios.

So please drop the AB+speed+implant+fleet booster fit designed to avoid missile damage, because 1) that work exactly as it should ; and 2) this kind of fit will evade turret dps too anyway.

PS to Michael Harari : an unlinked interceptor will never be hit by any turret unless he make a piloting mistake.

So please drop the AB+speed+implant+fleet booster fit designed to avoid missile damage, because 1) that work exactly as it should ; and 2) this kind of fit will evade turret dps too anyway.

So, to sum it up, we have on the right someone wanting to kill an interceptor in less than 30 seconds with missiles alone and no bonus to them ; and on the right someone who want with the exact same weapon be able to kill a cruiser in a 1v1.

So, you basicaly want a weapon which apply its dps independantly from speed and distance of the target, and more powerful than other cruiser weapons.

I see.

The only way to know your actuel turret dps is to shoot at a static target (not moving) while being immobile too, or to record the time you take from the first shot to killing blow, and then calculating ehp/time.

That's why AC are far better than they look on paper ; and that's the main difference with missiles : with missiles, if you know the fit, you know the dps you will apply.

Reload time for both groups set to 40 seconds.

T2 Rapid Light Launchers can carry roughly 18 charges
T2 Rapid Heavy Launchers can carry roughly 23 charges

This translates to a Raven with 3x BCU, T2 Rapid Heavy Launchers and Scourge Fury missiles doing 926 dps
This translates to a Caracal with 3x BCU, T2 Rapid Light Launchers and Scourge Fury missiles doing 409 dps[/b]

Both ships would have around 50 seconds of up time followed by 40 seconds of reload meaning that over extended engagements their true dps would be a bit more than half of the dps number above.

This would provide new strategic gameplay for Rapid Missile users as well as their opponents. It would make these systems stronger against ships that can be killed inside the active window(smaller ships) but worse over longer fights, which would usually mean fights against ships in the same class or larger. It would generally be more interesting but would also leave more space for the main missile systems to thrive as well.

I for one would like to support the change.

First, if flying in a frig, one of the few cruisers I won't tackle by myself as soon as I see it (QCATS has a 10% ROE) to wait for friends is a Caracal simply because I have no idea if it will be HML or RLML fit. Almost no other weapon system has as much potential for DPS against both frigs AND cruisers. Even other medium systems that do work can usually be countered by range or transversal far more easily than RLMs.

Furthermore by using RLML in their current state, most cruisers sacrifice very little DPS but then have the capacity to greatly enhance their defensive EHP (or allow for easier fitting of things like oversized AB's).

Finally, I would like to support it because it allows small frig gangs (2-6) a chance to actually take on a weapon system designed to counter them (again, like using better transversal or range on other medium weapon) because of the reload time. While this will suck for a single, roaming cruiser because it will have to choose one way or the other as to what missiles it will bring, even then there are ways around it.

Id like to be able to kill a tackle ship, with a dedicated antitackle ship with bonuses to anti-frigate weapons, in less than 90s. The RLM caracal as currently proposed, cannot do that. It will take about 2 minutes at best.