Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Good post Gypsio. When you look at those numbers its depressing. Why fit a weapon that uses more power grid and CPU yet fires poorer hitting missiles and doe less DPS overall.

The only way I can make HAM's work close to their potential in a gang, is to always include a dedicated target painting ship. We wouldn't undock without one.

Here would be my suggestions for HMLs and HAMs (as well as a few others). These are base values, before skill (etc.) modifications. The biggest changes are to torpedoes (drastically improved damage application) and cruise missiles (range nerf). Rockets are a bit better, light marginally worse - and heavies and heavy assaults have slightly improved damage application. The velocity on rockets, heavy assault missiles and torpedoes has been substantially increased (flight time reduced to compensate).

Rocket … 20m explosion radius, 170(+20) m/sec explosion velocity, 1.0(-1)s flight time, 4500(+2250) m/sec velocity
Light Missile … 40m explosion radius, 150(-20) m/sec explosion velocity, 5.0s flight time, 3750 m/s velocity
Heavy Assault Missile … 100(-25)m explosion radius, 125(+24)m/sec explosion velocity, 2.0(-2)s flight time, 5000(+3500) m/s velocity
Heavy Missile … 125(-15)m explosion radius, 100(+19)m/sec explosion velocity, 6.5s flight time, 4300 m/s velocity
Torpedo … 300(-150)m explosion radius, 85(+14) m/sec explosion velocity, 1.5(-4.5)s flight time, 6000(+4500) m/s velocity
Cruise Missile … 325(-5)m explosion radius, 75(+6) m/sec explosion velocity, 10.0(-4)s flight time, 4700 m/s

As for RLMLs and RHMLs, I think if the reload times were revised to 20 and 30 seconds respectively, that would probably balance them out nicely.

Where they are at is 45% below comparable LR turrets (excepting arties) BEFORE you factor in damage loss, from things like afterburning battleships being to fast for Heavies.

Come on now, we all know this, you gave the OTHER LR medium weapon systems the 20% damage (at least) that you took off of heavies. Considering that missiles can't critical, this is a monstrous disadvantage in power balance, as in heavies have no power none.

....the issue with HAMs is needed to give up tank, and a lot of it to get even a marginal range out of them, beacause all there is, is rigs.


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I find it funny that people complain about needing web or tp to apply damage to same-size targets with missiles.

Should missiles just do full damage at all ranges instead? Stop being bad.

LOL target painter+web = full dmage?

3 webs a scram and 5 target painters will get you to about 45% dps against a frig

Except it needs to be mid-slot, since lows are already at a premium. If they introduce a ballistics tracking computer, guaranteed you're going to see it affected by tracking disruptors.

It requires a combination of mods and changes to missile damage application stats. As long as frigates are immune to heavy missiles nobody is going to use them for pvp.

Well to be clear - technically, heavy precision missiles should be aimed at hitting smaller targets well, but still not as well as lights against frigates, that is for sure, somewhere in-between and close enough that fitting a normal Heavy Missile launcher is always more flexible than a RLML. If I'm flying a ship with heavy missiles, Normal T2 Heavy Missiles should be focused on hitting mid size targets decently and precisions against fast, small signature cruisers and frigates.

Here is an old CSM wiki page describing just that :)

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Precision_heavy_missiles_%28CSM%29

The thing with battleships was exactly what I was saying. 3 BS can't go in a gang of hafly competent cruisers under gate guns and have any hope to survive.

RLML was the only weapon allowing a ship to be completely immune to a lower class of ship as long as numbers didn't spike. Even a good gang of frigates had to be careful when taking on a RLML Caracal to not lose too many of the gang.

And RLML also completely took on the role of destroyers.

Tacticaly, the role of destroyers is frigate predatation. But RLML cruisers were plain better than them : they had a lot more tank, more speed, more dps, same or more range, perfect or near to perfect damage application. RLML was the ultimate frigate predation interdiction weapon : no frigate could stay in a range of a Caracal. They completely obsoleted destroyers and the only saving grace for them was small plexes and people with no missile skills.

So you're not gonna find a lot of these frigate farming Caracals, and I admit it was a little exagerating on this, but that's because EVE don't work like that : you just don't warp in when you have no chance, and you warp off if you see the Caracal coming.

New RLML still are very dangerous to lone frigates. Their new role is obvious to me : protecting a cruiser fleet against a fast tackle and anti-frigate fire support in guerilla warfare. That's indeed niche roles, but people will certainly find more creative ways to use them than I can imagin, and that's a niche weapon to begin with anyway. And they will still have the advantage against destroyers of not dying if a cruiser looks at them. Most people here cry about what they used as a main versatile weapon system ; they should be using HML.

Cruisers are not meant to be frigate predators, exactly like battleships are not meant to be cruiser predators. Battleship is not often endangered by a lone cruiser, yet cruisers still can be threats to them, and even more so if their friends are behind. The same is true for missile cruisers and frigates : if 50 dps look low on paper, that's enough to kill a frigate, yet there's no reason a frigate shouldn't have any chance against a cruiser if she don't fit for it.

That is the big picture, where a lot of ships interract between themselves, of different classes, with different weapons, in different scenarios. In this big picture, RLML were simply too good for the health of the game. And if it happen that HML can't take their role (they never have been really tested because RLML instantly took their place when they were nerfed), then you might cry for them to be buffed, but hopefully with a comprehensive vision of them and not with the point of view of a children wanting a blue bioman and not a red one because red sux.

@some stupid whiners : if you ever get tackled by an AB Incursus in your Caracal, you just deserve to die and be poded after that. Caracal is TWICE as fast as the AB Incursus. You can KITE him to death. If he have railguns, he will barely pass your shield passive regen, and if he is blaster fit, any frigate will murder him. Think about him as a counter to your missile ship, because he will do just that and die to everything else.

No one would complain that a frigate take 0 dps from medium LR turret below 30km, and no one would complain that a turret is rendered useless by TD. AB is the TD of missiles. Just deal with it and stop crying.