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[Rubicon] Rapid Missile Launchers - v2

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#201 - 2013-11-08 18:00:16 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
So the Cerberus becomes more and more interesting...



Nope .. they just KILLED the cerberus, that was the most powerful solo HAC.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Aflons
JUST PlXELS
#202 - 2013-11-08 18:00:55 UTC
I think what could make the RML, and the RHML much more interesting and fun would be to add a reload time per missile rather than as a whole. For example if you have 20 missiles and a reload time of 40 seconds instead of waiting the full 40 seconds to reload why not just reload an individual missile every 2 seconds. This would still create the same reload time at the end of the day but give the user the option to reload 5 missiles in 10 seconds and than fire them all off for the reload again. Anyways just a thought this could possibly be a fix that would make the 40 second reload times less painful
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2013-11-08 18:01:04 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
This. There's a reason artillery is so popular despite having lower DPS than the other LR turrets.

(cough) … ganking … (cough) Some of us do see the potential, even with the changes as proposed.



it is a strong module for Moderately large groups.

Its MASSIVE nerf for solo players.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#204 - 2013-11-08 18:02:20 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
Summary: Burst DPS increases by 53.8%, prolonged DPS decreases by about 9.9%.

Overall this is good discussion. Obviously there's a pretty wide range of reactions and I think that's probably a good sign. Please keep raising concerns if you have them so we spot as many potential problems as possible.


I don't understand how 80-90% of people telling you this is a bad idea comes across as "a wide range of reactions". Very few people here like this idea.


Very few of those people seem to understand that 2+0 has the same sum as 1+1



The problem is that we are not in a same suim result. THe total damage the ship can do is SMALLER!!!


After 2 minutes you will have done Way LESS damage!!!


Try to simmualte the combat. Its a HUGE difference !!!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#205 - 2013-11-08 18:03:52 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
So the Cerberus becomes more and more interesting...



Nope .. they just KILLED the cerberus, that was the most powerful solo HAC.


cuss its burst dps went up 48% and its sustained dps went down 9%

totally how i see that as killed

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2013-11-08 18:12:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
Summary: Burst DPS increases by 53.8%, prolonged DPS decreases by about 9.9%.

Overall this is good discussion. Obviously there's a pretty wide range of reactions and I think that's probably a good sign. Please keep raising concerns if you have them so we spot as many potential problems as possible.


I don't understand how 80-90% of people telling you this is a bad idea comes across as "a wide range of reactions". Very few people here like this idea.


Very few of those people seem to understand that 2+0 has the same sum as 1+1

But 1+1=3, for large values of 1.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#207 - 2013-11-08 18:13:17 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
So the Cerberus becomes more and more interesting...



Nope .. they just KILLED the cerberus, that was the most powerful solo HAC.


cuss its burst dps went up 48% and its sustained dps went down 9%

totally how i see that as killed


The problem with the is the "EFT effect". It can look great on paper, but being sans firepower for 40 seconds sucks in a real game situation. I fear that these new Rapid launchers will go the way of the dodo, or target lock breaker that next to no one uses.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#208 - 2013-11-08 18:13:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
MeBiatch wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
So the Cerberus becomes more and more interesting...



Nope .. they just KILLED the cerberus, that was the most powerful solo HAC.


cuss its burst dps went up 48% and its sustained dps went down 9%

totally how i see that as killed


Its sustained dps is going down by 20%, not 9%.

Thats in addition to being unable to swap damage types, swap between t2 and faction ammo, reload during short warps, reload during jam cycles, and being unable to supply the on-demand dps that is the entire reason to include RLM ships in a small gang.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#209 - 2013-11-08 18:14:31 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
Summary: Burst DPS increases by 53.8%, prolonged DPS decreases by about 9.9%.

Overall this is good discussion. Obviously there's a pretty wide range of reactions and I think that's probably a good sign. Please keep raising concerns if you have them so we spot as many potential problems as possible.


I don't understand how 80-90% of people telling you this is a bad idea comes across as "a wide range of reactions". Very few people here like this idea.


Very few of those people seem to understand that 2+0 has the same sum as 1+1

But 1+1=3, for large values of 1.


Let's do circles, 1+1=0.

I'd totally love to mount those rapids onto the stratios... any chance? Pirate
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#210 - 2013-11-08 18:14:51 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Kat Ayclism wrote:
Holy crap that's terrible ******* idea


Would love if you expanded a bit.


Holy crap it's a ******* brilliant idea!!!

It makes it very situation, and actually fits the Hit & Run motif of Rubicon.
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#211 - 2013-11-08 18:21:35 UTC
I got a better plan, 4 easy steps too.

1- put up buy orders for RLML and RHML at ridiculously cheap prices

2- when usage goes down people sell 'em to my ridiculously cheap buy orders

3- feed 'em to my alt with perfect reprocessing

4- Profit!
Kane Fenris
NWP
#212 - 2013-11-08 18:25:35 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Kane Fenris wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Justin Einstein wrote:
The problem that I can thing of is for missioning. I use Rapid lights on my Caracal now for L2 missions, but there is no way that it will be practical to do this after the change I think.

I think they'll still be fine, to be honest. You'll be dealing out substantially more DPS at the outset, which should clear out a few additional targets before having to reload.


this is false you need a certain ammount off missiles/ships. The #ships you kill before reload depends on clipsize not dps.
the clipsize is smaller therefore youll kill less before reload.

I think you missed the point in my response. You'll only need a few volleys (at most) to kill most ship types in an L2, which means with a 35% improvement to rate of fire you can more quickly dispense any ships aggro'ing you. With maximum skills, a minimum of 3 ballistic controllers and +3/+5 damage/rate-of-fire implants I think you'll be looking at under 2 seconds per volley with Caldari Navy faction RLMLs (since it's about 3-seconds for me now). Faction launchers hold a bit more ammunition (my guestimate would be about 25 rounds). That translates into roughly 50 seconds of rapid firing before reload.


i didn't miss a thing..... you said something very false.

what you meant does not matter if you dont say it.
if you meant the time needed to kill em but then say so.
its not my responsibility to distinguish between intentionally wrong arguments and badly made arguments.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#213 - 2013-11-08 18:32:24 UTC
The concept is really cool, but the practical usage of it will be extremely limited with a 40s reload timer.
Best ship I could think of to abuse this is a colaky tengu.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#214 - 2013-11-08 18:33:52 UTC  |  Edited by: XvXTeacherVxV
CCP Rise wrote:

Both ships would have around 50 seconds of up time followed by 40 seconds of reload meaning that over extended engagements their true dps would be a bit more than half of the dps number above.


Less up time, less reload time would be better. Cut both by 50-75%. Then you'd have small clips that you could burn through in less than 20 seconds and you'd avoid the no fun zone that is long reload times since it'd be about 10-15 seconds.

Advantages
- Reload time is still long enough to be a disadvantage but not so long it's unbearable.
- You could even take the opportunity to switch damage types which adds more room for good players to maximize their damage.
- Overall DPS would be about the same and the frontloaded DPS wouldn't be so extreme.

Win/Win/WIn.
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#215 - 2013-11-08 18:35:03 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
, reload during jam cycles,.


Which kills your FoF option for Rapid missile boats. I predict more Falcon.
KatanTharkay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2013-11-08 18:36:05 UTC
This is a very good change. That burst DPS will greatly help solo and small gang action where you need to kill your target fast before help arriving. Yarrrr! Pirate
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#217 - 2013-11-08 18:37:20 UTC
Kane Fenris wrote:
i didn't miss a thing..... you said something very false.
what you meant does not matter if you dont say it.
if you meant the time needed to kill em but then say so.
its not my responsibility to distinguish between intentionally wrong arguments and badly made arguments.

I thought it was fairly obvious since my response was to a question about L2 missions. Roll

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#218 - 2013-11-08 18:40:08 UTC
I think the only change that needs to be seriously considered with the current iteration is a reduction in the reload time to 20 seconds.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#219 - 2013-11-08 18:42:11 UTC
Undecided on the weapon change, it's not a class of weapon I'd likely use much - more of a turret person. I like the idea in principle however. However one thing I think needs to happen if you have a 40 second reload.

The ability to cancel it, or pre select the ammo to load on the next reload. Sitting and waiting 40 seconds for it to reload the ammo you don't want is just gonna be massively annoying.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#220 - 2013-11-08 18:49:01 UTC
Mr Floydy wrote:
Undecided on the weapon change, it's not a class of weapon I'd likely use much - more of a turret person. I like the idea in principle however. However one thing I think needs to happen if you have a 40 second reload.

The ability to cancel it, or pre select the ammo to load on the next reload. Sitting and waiting 40 seconds for it to reload the ammo you don't want is just gonna be massively annoying.


Its a bad idea to start this on weapons. Ohhh how about we do this to 220mm AC's! double dps...half ammo and 40 sec reload!
Or Artillery!
Or Blasters! Sure you'll do 1800 dps but you won't be able to sustain it enough to make a difference!

This is like taking viagra with the added side effect of it making you prematurely ejaculate. Sure its extra heavy and creamy but now you have to wait an entire day to do it again!